How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

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hisdudeness

How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:18 am

Dear all,

spending almost the whole weekend I finally managed to make Automap working as a control surface in Forte.
This means that you can control not just all BUS and Instrument volumes including Mute on/off with a Novation Remote SL controller but you can also let Forte control your Novation settings when changing status of volume/mute parameters directly in Forte or when changing scenes having Forte updating all controls on the keyboard.
And of course: Pot-pickup is working! So e.g. the volume of your instrument won’t change if your keyboard fader is on different setting then in the scene you have just switched to unless you moved the fader to that position given in Forte and “picks up” that value. This avoids e.g. huge volume jumps when moving a fader which parameter is different on the keyboard than in Forte.

I will try to give a very detailed instruction how this works but if you face some issues or doesn’t understand a point please don’t hesitate to post here or send me a PM.

If you want to try my sample configuration I have attached to this post (map-file for Automap and control surface file for Forte) please create a test rack in Forte with one (1) Bus and nine (9) instruments (or less). The layout of the controls on the keyboard for each Bus/instrument you will find below.

IMPORTANT: I don’t take any liability for these instructions so please don’t use my sample files for your live rack! Make some experiences with a test rack and those files and have a look into the sample files (especially the xml-file) to understand how this is working! I am happy to answer questions!

Recommendations:
- Forte 2.1.126.2086
- Novation Remote SL controller (I work with a MK I controller but this should work for the MK II series as well. Just give it a try and report)
- Automap 3.4 (this requires also an update of the keyboard OS if you haven’t done so yet. Not sure if it works also with lower Automap versions)
- Customized control surface xml-file for Forte (find a sample attached)
- Customized/new user Automap template (find a sample attached, don't forget to RENAME IT!!! See attached note for file below)

1. Automap:
When having the keyboard connected to the PC and Automap is running and no VSTi’s are open set the keyboard to the Automap template (38).
You will then see on the right keyboard display the Automap menu (User/Instrument/FX/Mixer etc).
PLESE note: When using the Automap template the lower row of buttons on the right keyboard side will be reserved for template controls and can not be assigned with Midi parameters!
Now choose “User” on the keyboard and you will prompted with two factory user templates (Channel 1 and Channel 2). If you choose one of them you will see a standard Midi layout for all controllers on the keyboard display as well as in Automap.
You can of course delete those templates or create new ones. The default user templates names just refer to the Midi channel they are sending on.
Important: Those Midi channels are sending on the virtual Automap Midi port. So whatever channel you choose here shouldn’t interfere with any other Midi hardware/software sending on those channels.

If you like you can check the the Forte_automap sample user template I have attached to this post. This will control on Automap midi channel 16:
- Fader to the very right (#8): First Bus volume
- Faders from left to right #1-#7: Instrument volumes #1-#7
- Buttons right keyboard side #1-#6: Instrument mute on/off #1-#6
- Buttons right keyboard side #7,#8: Previous scene (#7), next scene (#8)
- Lower knobs on the left keyboard side #7,#8: Instrument volumes #8,#9
- Buttons above these knobs: Mute on/off for Instruments #8,#9

Sidenote:
Missing Mute on/off control for instrument #7?
This is a tricky one since I have setup the control surface xml to let the fader of instrument #6 not only control it’s volume but also the Mute on/off: When fader #6 sends 0 the Mute status will set to ON, when this fader is moved to 1 the Mute status will set to OFF. This can be done of course for every instrument if needed you just have to move the fader slowly from 0 up because otherwise the “1” won’t be transferred/read by Forte to un-mute the instrument. Check it out.

Detailed instructions on the Automap template:
So let’s delete the factory user templates and create a new on Automap channel 16 (“Settings/Midi channels within Automap menu) with the standard layout. You can also rename the template e.g. to “Forte”.
You can also rename all the names assigned to each control.
VERY IMPORTANT: Don’t assign manually different Midi CC# than given in this default template! This seems to be a bug since the controls won’t work anymore with Automap (when changing something on the keyboard Automap simply does nothing and the keyboard is sending still the default assigned Midi CC#!). I already reported that to Novation.
The only controls you can assign manually are those of the transport bar and the pedal ports since they are not integrated in Automap. You can also rename controls and change their behaviour (Normal/Momentary/Toggle/Step). This will be important for using a button as a Next/Previous Scene switch!

Once you have renamed the controls according to your needs make sure that Automap sends and receives on “Automap Midi”. You might check those settings under “Settings” in Automap.
Also check “Use Pot-pickup” in the Automap settings if you want to use that feature.

So far we are done with Automap and can continue with the control surface xml.

2. Forte:
First you need to modify the “MyControlSurfaceDefinitions.xml” (or replace it with the sample I attached to this post).
Note: Make sure that Forte is not running!
Detailed questions regarding this file and it’s parameters please post since it would blast these instructions ;-) I tried to make the xml-file as clear as possible with some notes so it shouldn’t be to hard to understand.
For now replace your file with my sample (or rename yours first if you have already modified it). You will find this file in Windows XP here:
C:\Documents and Settings\”Username”\Application Data\brainspawn\forte 2
In Windows 7 it is here:
C:\Users\”Username”\AppData\Roaming\brainspawn\Forte 2

Once you’ve done that start Forte and go to “Options/Preferences/Midi Input Ports” and make sure that “Automap Midi” and Remote SL ports 1-3 are checked!
Restart Forte.
Go to “Options/Control Surfaces”, click on “Add” and choose “Automap” (this is the xml-file you have just copied above). Set Input and Output to “Automap”.
Click ok.

That’s it!

Whenever you change one of the controls listed above the appropriate volume/mute status should change in Forte.
Whenever you change something in Forte itself (with the mouse or by changing scenes) the controller values on your Novation keyboard should update automatically.

Note for Automap keyboard layout: Of course the keyboard will change it’s layout according to any “automapped” VSTi you will open in console mode to edit. It will NOT change back to the control surface map when closing the VSTi!
To get back to the control surface map you have to use the automap template control buttons on the keyboard (lower button row, right keyboard side).

I hope this instruction is not too weird and that I haven’t made (too many) mistakes in my instructions. If so please let me know.

Best regards
hisdudeness

fab
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby fab » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:12 am

excellent! thanks. i'm locked a little into my bcr2000s ATM, but this might change...
could you load this up to the brainspawn wiki so it won't vanish in the depth of the forum?

MikeG
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby MikeG » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:34 pm

Great work! I've made this sticky. I'll try to convert it to an article on the web site eventually.

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

Melies

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Melies » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:19 pm

Thank you very much hisdudeness, that is excellent !

I will try it soon (I currently do not have a lot of time for music :( ) and will give you a feed back (I have a Remote 49SL MkII).

Thanks again :)

sosKeys
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby sosKeys » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:34 am

adding to the chorus, this is thorough and saved ***a lot** of time figuring things out. I'm just in the fooling around stage with my home test setup, but off to a very good start with the instructions and (especially) the config files.

Now all we need is the ability to put SceneView on the secondary monitor and life will be a chair of bowlies...

Thanks!

Dirk Offringa
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:51 am

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:35 am

? Where is the problem? I am using this all the time at home.

Having the Forte rack on my laptop display while SceneView is running on the attached 22" Monitor displaying the lead sheets.

I have configured my laptop to use the extended desktop feature. While using WinXP I installed the Lenovo Thinkvantage Presentation director where you can create multiple profiles.
One for extended desktop, one for monitor only, one for laptop display only.
Should work with XP without the Lenovo software also.

Configure the attached monitor as the main display, start Forte. Then move Forte over to the laptop display (extended display). Then click Alt+0 and SceneView will open on the main display (monitor).

Best regards
hisdudeness

Jojo1987

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Jojo1987 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:24 am

Hi,

this works fine for me, but there is one problem:
When I simultaneously press two or more buttons on my 61SL MkII that are assigned to Group Mute on/off, forte freezes.
When I just press one mute button, everything is fine. Also the MIDI feedback is working properly.
There is also no problem when changing multiple channel volumes at once.

Did anyone experience this problem, too?
I don't know if it is a bug in forte. Maybe theres a mistake in my XML.

Jojo

EDIT: I just tested this in forte 3 beta and the error doesn't occur. So maybe if it was a bug its already fixed...

piert
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby piert » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:23 pm

This is very interesting information indeed, although I must say it is at the outer limits of my IT skills.

I am wondering, though: would this also work for my BCF 2000 motorized fader MIDI control surface by Behringer?

If so, is there any more tutorial-stuff on how to apply it to that equipment?

Thanks,
Perry

Meistermacher
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Location: Germany

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Meistermacher » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:33 am

Hi piert,
ajust the code below and copy it into file "MyControlSurfaceDefinitions.xml". For more information about configuring BCF2000 visit .

Cheers

<ControlSurface Name="BCF2000r" Enabled="1" HasOutput="1" BankSize="8">
<!-- BUS Volume -->
<Action Action="Bus.Volume.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="81"/>
<Action Action="Bus.Volume.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="82"/>
<Action Action="Bus.Volume.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="83"/>
<!-- Instrument module volume section -->
<Action Action="Module.Volume.4.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="84"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.5.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="85"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.6.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="86"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.7.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="87"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.8.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="88"/>
<!-- Mute on/off section -->
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="76" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="77" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="78" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="79" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="80" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="76" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="77" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="78" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="79" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="80" Param2="0"/>
<!-- Preset > = Next Scene -->
<Action Action="NextScene" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="98" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Preset < = Previous Scene -->
<Action Action="PreviousScene" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="99" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Transport Play -->
<Action Action="Transport.Play" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="8" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Transport.Play" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="8" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Transport Stop -->
<Action Action="Transport.Stop" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="8" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Transport.Stop" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="8" Param2="0"/>
<!-- BUS Volume -->
<Update Action="Bus.Volume.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="81"/>
<Update Action="Bus.Volume.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="82"/>
<Update Action="Bus.Volume.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="83"/>
<!-- Midi feedback update instrument module volume -->
<Update Action="Module.Volume.4.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="84"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.5.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="85"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.6.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="86"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.7.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="87"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.8.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="88"/>
<!-- Midi feedback update Mute on/off section -->
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="76" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="77" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="78" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="79" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="80" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="76" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="77" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="78" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="79" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="80" Param2="0"/>
<!-- Pedal = Tap Tempo -->
<Action Action="Tempo.Tap" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="97" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Bank up -->
<!-- Action Action="ControlSurface.BankUp" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="0x5C" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Bank down -->
<!-- Action Action="ControlSurface.BankDown" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="0x5B" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- MIDI Panic -->
<Action Action="Transport.Panic" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="2" Param1="66" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Midi feedback update First BUS Volume -->
<!-- Update Action="Bus.Volume.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="0"/-->
<!--Update Action="Bus.Volume.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="0"/-->
</ControlSurface>
</ControlSurfaces>

Dirk Offringa
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:56 pm

Hi hd,

Thank again for this tutorial, great work. I just bought a Remote 25SL second hand, this will come in handy and save me a couple of hours of headscratching!

BTW: ++1 for Sceneview on the secondary monitor.... My XP doesn't want to retain the secondary/primary settings, furthermore I'm changing them all the time, it would be just cool if we had control over the sceneview window ourselves.

Andd hmmmm, in your original post you mention attached files, they seem to have vanished. Do you have a link or something? You want me to host them and provide a link here?

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:56 am

Hi Dirk,

yes the config files seem to be gone :-(

Anyway I can post my actual ones here if you want just to get an overview. Need to post them in the evening since I don`t have them with me here in the office ;-)

If you want to host them somewhere else and post a link that`s fine for me.

Best regards
hd

Dirk Offringa
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Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:10 am

Hi hd,

Could you please send me your config files? I'm received my Remote 25SL (MkI, like you)... it would save me a lot of hassle if I could copy your CS code over as a starting point.

Thanks!
Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:07 am

Hi Dirk,

sorry, I promised that to you already but forgot. Can you pm me your email address since I can`t upload the native file formats here. I can send you an automap-file as well as a MyControlSurfaceDefinitions.xml.

Best regards
hd

Dirk Offringa
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Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
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Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:43 pm

Hi hd,

info a t solidsoundstudio.net will do....

Thanks!!
Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:12 am

up...

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:58 pm

Hi everyone.

I am trying to understand this process. Can the xml be used with novation impulse?
it uses a version 4 automap. Also, there was an earlier post regarding
automap plugins usage in forte requiring uninstalling of the usb driver first.
Is that still the recommended approach.

Thanks for all insight.

Sincerely,
Popeye

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:18 am

Hi popeye,

I`ve no experience with Automap 4 so far but the xml-file is basically nothing special "Novation" related. It just defines which Midi values are controlling which controllers in Forte. So you should be able to integrate the new Novation keyboards without problems in Forte as a control surface.

Regarding uninstalling the Novation USB-driver in order to use the keyboard to control VST plugins in Forte I haven`t heard of or at least can`t remember anymore ;-) I don`t think that it`s true in this context but probably you can post a link to the thread where this was posted.

But nevertheless I think it`s going to be quite complicated if you want to control VST plugins as well live as using the Novation controller as a control surface, especially if you want to use SceneView. Whenever you open a VST plugin in Forte via Automap the GUI of the VST plug pops up so this might interfere with SceneView. Also I`m not quite sure how to close the VST gui and go back to Forte`s main screen or even SceneView just by controls from the Novation controller (without touching the computer) which would be essential for me especially on stage.

In my case I`ve "hardcoded" all controls on my Novation board which I need for the VST plugins (e.g. Rotary on/off with the organ) and just "automap" those controls which are defined for control surface usage (sliders for bus/instrument slots volume, mute buttons). That`s sufficient for me.

Best regards
hisdudeness

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:26 pm

Hi,

Thank you for the quick response. I managed to assign the sliders in forte to
the novation impulse, as well as the mutes but not the solos. One problem I have is during
the scene view changes ie: scene 1 has two modules muted and scene 2 has one module
muted but the novation impulse doesn't update the state of the it's mute buttons.
Also, what exactly do you mean by hardcoding automap controls.

Thank you very much for you time and help.

Best regards,
popeye

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:14 pm

Hi Popeye,

you can`t assign the solo button! Only the mute button.

If the Novation doesn`t update the buttons when doing a scene change then something is wrong in the xml-file! Remember, you have to write two sections in the xml-file, one for "Forte-receiving" midi events from a control surface, and one for "Forte-sending" midi events TO the control surface. If you already did so I guess there might be a simply typo. At least in my first tests it took me a long time to get rid of them ;-)

With "hard-coding" I mean, that I don`t program controls on my Novation Remote controller via Automap and the control-surface xml-file but just on the Remote controller and in Forte. These controls will always stay the same, never change from scene to scene, never will be updated or whatsoever. Simply midi programming on the controller for special controls within a VST plugin (e.g. Rotary on/off for my B4 II).

Best regards
Thorsten

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:19 pm

O.K. I think I'm starting to understand the process.
I looked at the factory xml file and I don't see or at least I
can't understand which of the lines would represent messages
from forte to in my case the impulse. Could you kindly post an example
of the syntax within the factory xml that would update the impulse
according to the state of the mutes in the current scene.

Thanks. Btw, why can mutes but not solos be automated?

all the best!
popeye

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:00 am

Hi Popeye,

why the solo can`t be automated has to be answered by Mike.

Here`s what my recent xml-file is looking like (lines starting with an exlamation mark are just for information since they don`t take effect):

<ControlSurfaces>
<ControlSurface Name="Automap" Enabled="1" HasOutput="1" BankSize="8">
<!-- BUS Volume Section -->
<!--Action Action="Bus.Volume.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="10"/-->
<!-- Action Action="Bus.Volume.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="8"/-->
<!-- Instrument module volume section -->
<!--Action Action="Module.Volume.3.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="9"/-->
<Action Action="Module.Volume.4.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="14"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.5.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="16"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.6.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="17"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.7.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="18"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.8.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="19"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.9.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="20"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.10.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="21"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.11.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22"/>
<Action Action="Module.Volume.12.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23"/>
<!-- Mute on/off section -->
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="33" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="39" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="38" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="40" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="41" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.6" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="42" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.7" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="43" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.8" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="44" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.9" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="45" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.10" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOn.11" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="33" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="39" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="38" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="40" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="41" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.6" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="42" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.7" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="43" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.8" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="44" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.9" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="45" Param2="0"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.10" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22" Param2="10"/>
<Action Action="Group.MuteOff.11" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23" Param2="10"/>
<!-- Preset > = Next Scene -->
<Action Action="NextScene" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="47" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Preset < = Previous Scene -->
<Action Action="PreviousScene" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="46" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Pedal = Tap Tempo -->
<!-- = Action Action="Tempo.Tap" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Bank up -->
<!-- = Action Action="ControlSurface.BankUp" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="1" Param1="0x5C" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Bank down -->
<!-- = Action Action="ControlSurface.BankDown" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="1" Param1="0x5B" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Transport Play -->
<!-- = Action Action="Transport.Play" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="15" Param1="93" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Transport Stop -->
<!-- = Action Action="Transport.Stop" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="15" Param1="92" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- MIDI Panic -->
<Action Action="Transport.Panic" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="94" Param2="0x7F"/>
<!-- Midi feedback update BUS Volume -->
<!--Update Action="Bus.Volume.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="10"/-->
<!--Update Action="Bus.Volume.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="8"/-->
<!-- Midi feedback update instrument module volume -->
<Update Action="Module.Volume.3.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="9"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.4.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="14"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.5.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="16"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.6.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="17"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.7.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="18"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.8.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="19"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.9.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="20"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.10.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="21"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.11.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22"/>
<Update Action="Module.Volume.12.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23"/>
<!-- Midi feedback update Mute on/off section -->
<!--Update Action="Group.MuteOn.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="33" Param2="0x7F"/-->
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="39" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="38" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="40" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="41" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.6" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="42" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.7" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="43" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.8" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="44" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.9" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="45" Param2="0x7F"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.10" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOn.11" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.1" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="33" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.2" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="39" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.3" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="38" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.4" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="40" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.5" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="41" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.6" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="42" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.7" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="43" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.8" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="44" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.9" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="45" Param2="0"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.10" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="22" Param2="10"/>
<Update Action="Group.MuteOff.11" Kind="CONTROL" Ch="16" Param1="23" Param2="10"/>
</ControlSurface>
</ControlSurfaces>

What you can see is the different "control sections" (I´ve made them bold above for a better overview):
1. "Action Action" section:
This is the section were is defined what happens when something is sent by Midi from your controller TO Forte.
Within this section you`ll have sub sections like
- Bus Volume
- Instrument Volume
- Module Volume
- Mute on/off
- a few extra settings for Pedal, Midi Panic, Bank down/up and so on (which don`t need Midi feedback that`s why you don`t see them in the next section)

2. "Update Action" section:
There is explicit written "Midi feedback update..." since this section defines what happens if something changes in Forte and has to be sent/receive TO/BY your controller. This is for the sub sections like above
- Bus Volume
- Instrument Volume
- Module Volume
- Mute on/off

Let me know if you`ve still questions. Hope this is not too confusing ;-)

Best regards
hisdudeness

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:20 pm

Hi friend,

First off thank you so much for all the help!

The xml you gave is great. However, the impulse(novation controller I use) is
not updating the mutes to match the current scene I am on. For example,

scene 1 has four modules. Three are muted
scene 2 has only two muted.

Impulse mutes don't change state ( are not updated with the scenes)
I also tried clicking on the mutes with a mouse from forte and
there was no updating occuring on the impulse.

I use midisport uno as my interface and the novation has
no problem with sending the cc messages as assigned in the xml.

The problem is the updating from forte to impulse. The control
surface uses midisport for midi in and out. connected with midi cables.

I don't know what I may be doing wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long winded post.

Sincerely,
popeye

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:11 pm

hisdudeness,

any ideas why this may be happening? I'm stumped...

Thanks again in advance of your help

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:43 pm

Anyone else willing to chime in?

Thanks alot.

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:41 am

Hi Popeye,

sorry that I`ve missed your question so far.

You mentioned using the midisport uno. What are your settings in Automap regarding the control channels and Midi ports? Can you choose the Midisport uno there? I guess not. As far as I remember Automap works reliable only via the USB connection.

Don`t you have your Impulse connected via USB anyway? If not, give it a try and let me know!

Best regards

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:38 pm

Hi,

Friend, control surfaces menu has Impulse as Device with input MIDISPORT Uno In
and output MIDISPORT Uno Out

Forte receives the messages but doesn't update back to Impulse ie:state of the mutes
also the pot pickup (if that is what it's called) doesn't work ie: scene changes and mixer
movement from Impulse causes a jump of forte volume fader.

I am not using automap at all ( I uninstalled it) but let me know
if that is needed i will reinstall.

Thank you dearly,

popeye

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:30 am

Hi Popeye,

as far as I know you definetely must install Automap, especially for using the pot-pickup feature (which I love most in this software!).

Connect the impulse to your computer by USB, then deselect in Forte the Impulse Midi inputs and outputs except the Automap if you want to stay with your Midisport uno. In Automap select the channel and port to receive and send the commands and change the control surface port in Forte from the Midisport to Automap.

You could also try to route the Automap communication via the Impulse Midi ports instead of USB if you really want to not use USB at all but I guess this will be getting even more complex.

Best regards
hd

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:16 pm

Hi,

I tried all configurations. In automap for midi in and out ports I first
selected midi sport uno for midi in and out
and in forte under control surface i selected the same :
midi sport uno in and out.
same problem clicking on mute with mouse in forte didn't
update the novation controller.

I then tried assigning midi in and out in forte and automap software
to automap midi .

it didn't respond at all this way. the midi activity lights up in forte but
no response to fader or mute from novation to forte .

So in summary maudio sport is connected to midi in and out on novation.
and the usb is connected (required to power novation). Automap is installed and usb and audio
midi driver are installed.

Any other thing I may have overlooked...

Thanks so much for you patience and help.

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:37 pm

Automap server is running? Does it report the number of connected clients? I'm not (at all) expert here, but from what I understood, I believe that you must load a template into your controller for the Automap system to function, otherwise how could the Automap server know that a client is connected?

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

popeye50

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby popeye50 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:45 pm

What exactly is a client?
I click on midi channel 1 within automap software setup page and then
go into edit mapping. Movement of the physical faders (impulse)
move automap software and forte software (simultaneously)
Also clicking on the faders or mute from Forte causes automap
software to respond.
The problem is Forte doesn't update novation when I click on mute
within forte or drag a fader within forte.

:-(

hisdudeness

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby hisdudeness » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:54 pm

Hi Popeye,

"client" is referred to your midi-device, your Impulse.

If you move the faders in Automap or Forte, does your Impulse updates simultanously?

Can you send me your control-surface xml-file or just post it here.

Best regards
hd

DonLead

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby DonLead » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:18 pm

Hey Hd and others,
I know this Topic is old.
I have the Novation 61SL Mk2, but my it skills are very low, i dont get it how to write this template and the controlsurface file.

Can someone help me or send me your files that i can copy them?
my mail is: david.k.ehlers at googlemail.com
You would help me so much!

Thank you very much!

David

Joedouble

Re: How-to: Novation Automap as a control surface for Forte

Postby Joedouble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:52 pm

Hiho people,

love this community so far. my first post now.

I have a new Novation Impulse with Automap 4.1. That is supposed to run with the Forte 3 demo version, which I downloaded today.
Is there a current manual or something which I can apply now or is the information in this thread concerning these old versions somehow applicable?

To keep it simple, I am now trying to bring the free Minimogue VST to work http://home.no/gunnare/
In Automap it is listed under VSTs(see picture), while the plugin list is empty.

Would be nice now to get the full range of functions now with all the nice knobs on the keyboard ;)
Thank you, every help will be appreciated very much.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/automapi.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/automap2.jpg/


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