Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

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Andreuz
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:46 pm

Hello everyone-

I am not a newbie to Forte & EHCo, but need some help please.

Just a little info before getting to my question: I have been using Forte & EHCo for many years and there is just nothing else like it and Brainspawn (Mike & Dirk) have always had a solution to issues or shortly after a fix in next update to any issues that have arisen. And I thank them for their great support. I recently purchased a Korg Kronos X to my live Forte & EHCo setup. I have found the sounds on the Kronos to be 2nd to none. I now use Omnisphere, Native Instruments & other VSTs and layer them over my two hardware synths (along with splits, transposes, program changes, etc using Forte). As you know, adding a new piece of midi gear can change things dramatically in your whole setup. In my testing phase and creating a "Master Scene" in Forte, I have setup 8 instances of EHCo on 8 separate channels that sends program changes to the Kronos in "Combination Mode" and then routed and played back on either the Kronos or my other midi piano (both with Local OFF). Obviously, I will never use all 8 at once for any one Forte Scene (song). But having 8 pre-assigned is very handy because I have 4 pre-assigned to upper keyboard & 4 pre-assigned to lower keyboard each of which is designated as "Piano" "Strings" "Organ" or "Other" (brass, synth, flute, sax, or whatever). This makes it very easy to quickly create a new song by using this Master Scene saving alot of time because almost everything is already setup! The only thing left to do is find appropriate new sounds for each new scene (song), turn on or mute instances, adjust splits, transposes, ect.

In years past, I was using all VSTs and just 1 midi piano and 1 controller. In the main Forte GUI, the volume sliders have worked great for adjusting the volume mix of VSTs for each scene. I really had no need to adjust volume on my piano for each song as I could do that very quickly on the fly or use expression pedal assigned to Cntrl 7. Now, with the Kronos added to my setup using EHCo to control several instances on several channels, I now need to be able to use Forte's main "Volume Sliders" to adjust the volume mix (on the fly) the same was I use them to adjust the mix of VSTs. So far, I have had no success in the sliders on the Kronos GUI in combination mode, responding to changes made to the main sliders in Forte. I have checked everything that I know of on both Kronos & Forte (including enabling controller changes, controller "learn" with in EHCo, etc) and the Kronos GUI sliders do not respond to volume slider changes in Forte.

This leads me to my questions which I am addressing to Brainspawn technical support: Are these main GUI sliders in Forte designed to only work with VSTs digital audio and not designed to work with external midi gear through EHCo ??? If this is the case, can I please suggest that this could be added to next update? Maybe add an 2 boxes as options to "check" next to the volume sliders per instance. 1 box for digital audio volume & 1 box for midi audio volume (that uses controller 7). Either one or the other could be selected (but not both per instance). I realize you can already add controller values within EHCo, however, this is very time-consuming and not user friendly and way too much work when using several instances of EHCo to get the right mix in combination of using both VSTs & external midi gear in a single scene.

Maybe I am overlooking something in Forte's options? ....and hopefully that is the case. I welcome any suggestions to try. If there is no immediate fix, I hope that my suggestion gets some serious consideration for the next update.

Thanks in advance,
Andreuz

speedinator
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Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby speedinator » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:20 am

Hi Andreuz,

sry , i'm in a bit of a rush, so just a quick idea:
have you tried forte's control surface editor? it seems to me that's exactly what you are looking for (linking fortes volume-parameter and external midi controller) ...

Best,
speedi

Andreuz
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Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:10 pm

Hi speedinator -
Thanks for the reply and I do thank you for the suggestion. However, I spent 2 days trying to get Control Surface & Editor to work and had zero success. Every time I inserted a custom Control Surface in a single instance, it does something extremely weird to all the instances: Loud, split-second notes heard when enabling or muting instances, weird tuning shifts, stuck notes, etc... all with just one, single Control Surface inserted. FYI.. I am still using the 32 bit Forte & EHCo, because I have had the best stable results. I tried the 64 bit versions and was having crashes daily. With the 32 bit version, zero crashes until experimenting with Control Surface.

To Brainspawn Tech Support -
I was hoping Mike or Dirk would have chimed-in by now with some feedback. I read several other threads from other users pretty much wanting exactly what I come across controlling MIDI volume (in similar words) along with digital audio VST volume. If it takes me 2 days monkeying around with Control Surface with no positive results, then I have to say that is not very user friendly and not to mention very frustrating. I am sure I must be doing something wrong, but that if its that difficult to get to work... then, something may need to be addressed, particularly if someone is creating a custom Control Surface as in my case.

A keyboardist in a live performance needs to be able to control the mix for both VST volume & MIDI volume "quickly and easily" and many times on the fly. The acoustics change dramatically in different locations and there is no time to be going any deeper than the "Main GUI" for volume/mix adjustments. In my band, we try to come as close to matching the sound of our backflow stage monitors to our mains... so each musician can make individual adjustments themselves, a common practice for many bands nowadays. With that said, I feel that ECHo is just as FANTASTIC as Forte is and for many of that use it - just as important. Both play equally important roles and the updates & improvements should be just as equally important. So again, I am making a suggestion that once an ECHo instance (or several instances) are combined with other VST instances, the Main GUI audio mixer should be able to accommodate BOTH digital audio & midi audio (with an option for one or the other, per instance) so the Main GUI sliders can truly do what they should do and that is "MIX AUDIO" quickly and easily. This way, both VST other external MIDI gear will respond instantly to slider changes all in one place: the Main GUI. If this one feature were incorporated, I think a lot of all the Forte/ECHo users would be very happy campers.

-Andreuz

MikeG
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Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby MikeG » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:34 pm

You are correct. Forte's GUI sliders are audio faders that alter the mix of audio through the virtual plugins. They do not affect outboard hardware running separate outs.

A control surface is designed to affect Forte's master MIDI automation, but I suspect what you are trying to do here is convert input CCs from a surface into CC7 on a specific channel out on an instance of EHCo? If so, I would say that your friend here is just the MIDI filtering settings for each ECHo instance. do CC remapping?

Is that not sufficient?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

Andreuz
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:19 am


beatlab
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Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby beatlab » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:35 am

Hi Andreuz,

i´m also using Forte and an additional Kronos on stage. I´m not sure if this might be a solution for you, but the way I do it is following.
I send the SPDIF-Out of the Kronos to SPDDIF-In of my Audiointerface (RME babyface) and add this to an Audioinput Channel in Forte.
Of course you can also do this with Analog Ins/Outs, depending on your Hardware.
This way I only need 1 Stereo-Out from the babyface to the Stagebox/FOH and I´m able to control the complete Mastervolume of VSTis and Kronos from only one Kronos-Slider in EXT Mode to Control the Forte Master Out..

By the way, I don´t understand why you are using 8 instances of ECHo. I think it´s much more easy to save your different Combinations on Kronos and only use one instance to switch them per scene!?

Best regards
Beatlab
Forte 4 64bit - Win 10 Pro |Asrock Desk Mini | i7 6700 | 32GB DDR4 | 512Gb SSD NVME Samsung Pro| RME-Babyface - Halion 5, REFX Nexus, UVI Falcon, Sampletank 3, Native B4, Vengeance Avenger

Andreuz
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:21 pm

Last edited by Andreuz on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

beatlab
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Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby beatlab » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:58 am

The advantage of using different Kronos Combis would be that you are able assign and save the Volumes of different Sounds in advance and then normally only need to adjust the Mastervolume.
The only things I save in Combinations on Kronos are the different sounds and the volume relations.
All splitting, layering and deciding on which keyboard I play which Sounds then happens in the Midi Routing of Forte. This is all possible with one single instance of ECHo.

To adjust single Sound Volumes (to fade in/out additional Pads to the Piano for example) I use the hardware faders of Kronos to control CC 07.
I had to assign the controllers once in Kronos Global ->Midi-> External1 Menu and then switch them to EXT Mode (Button on left side of the sliders)
Unfortunately the sliders on screen don´t give visual feedback about volume changes.
Only workaround if you wish the see visual feedback would be to select the on screen Channel slider by hitting the touchscreen and then using the hardware Value-slider.
Forte 4 64bit - Win 10 Pro |Asrock Desk Mini | i7 6700 | 32GB DDR4 | 512Gb SSD NVME Samsung Pro| RME-Babyface - Halion 5, REFX Nexus, UVI Falcon, Sampletank 3, Native B4, Vengeance Avenger

Andreuz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:19 am

beatlab-

Again, although we are getting off the main topic (which is adding midi volume cc#7 to the main GUI of Forte), your reply is worth responding to:

I guess it is all comes down to individual preference and I appreciate your suggestion. There are benefits to both ways. I can do the same thing without having to create a new combi for each and every song and use only 1 combi. My ONLY issue was getting sliders to respond up and down visually. Each channel still responds to CC#7 from ECHo... so I am able to create a volume mix of Kronos, Omnisphere, & NI VSTs in Forte per scene. If I have to manually adjust or tweak the sliders (which I am all ready beginning to get use to) so be it... and know exactly which slider (channel) adjusts what sound. I also use an expression pedal which I have assigned to certain instances in case I want to bring in some strings, choir, etc. into the mix without my hands ever leaving the keyboards... totally awesome.

I just found it very odd that Korg decided to use SysEx messages to make the sliders respond visually something I did not know when initially starting this thread. This does not change my request to add the option of volume CC#7 to the main GUI in Forte sliders for each instance.

Andreuz
Last edited by Andreuz on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

lancaster6
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Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby lancaster6 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:26 pm

i too would like to be able to control forte's volume sliders via CC. if i adjust volumes live with my korg nano mixer, and get them just where i want them, that volume does not save. if these were adjusted via forte's individual volume bars, they would save. i could do a quick save at the end of the song and that would be optimal.

Andreuz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Re: Main GUI Volume Slider(s) Question ?

Postby Andreuz » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:46 pm



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