for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive switch

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glenny_g
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive switch

Postby glenny_g » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:17 pm

Hi. Sorry, I thought there was a dedicated wishlist section but haven't found it. Feel free to bump this.

I'd love to see a midi implementation that is common on hardware multitimbral keyboards. It works like this - say you have a piano sound and you want to add strings layer for the second verse. You might enable that with a hardware button on the keyboard which is assigned to the note recieve parameter. Until then, that string layer is not receiving midi notes. This is different to an audio mute where the string layer is always active but its output is muted/unmuted as desired. Instead, this is a note receive mute. Now, when you want to turn the string layer back off, you reactivate the note receive mute. The audio engine waits for note off messages before muting all note receive so you don't get hung notes. But, very usefully, you can hold a chord, mute the strings and they won't cut off until you release those notes. Also, unlike an audio mute, you can hold a chord, UNMUTE the note receive for the strings, and the strings won't sound until you play new notes.

This makes midi muting much more useful than audio muting for live performance because, unlike audio muting, you don't get abrupt starts and ends with the added layers. Also, because muted instruments are not receiving midi notes, they aren't using CPU or polyphony, unlike an audio-muted instrument.

When Korg brought out the Kronos it didn't have live midi muting and the requests were so numerous that they introduced it on an OS update. Roland have always had it on their romplers. On my Kronos (and before that on my XP50 etc) I can get through a lot of the gig with one performance that has an electric piano, acoustic piano, organ, clavinet, vibes, brass, strings and pad. I just mute and unmute each instrument as required (note receive mute, NOT audio mute). In Forte, I need many scenes to cover all those possibilities and the transition between them is not seamless.

So how do you get it into Forte? Make the checkbox for "Receive notes" assignable to a controller and ensure that Forte waits for a note off (and/or velocity=0 message from some controllers) before it starts ignoring note messages again. I'd love to be able to seamlessly add and mute instruments this way.

You could even use it when you need to segue between two songs because you can set up your rack for both songs and mute the second song's instruments' note receive , assign the CC message with reverse polarity on the first song instruments' note receive parameter and in one button push you would go from the first song active to the second song active without having to move through the setlist at all.

A handy feature that would make Forte more akin to a hardware multi-timbral synth.

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby mschnell » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:33 am

If you don't find an internal solution with Forte you might consider to use Bome Midi Translator in the Midi data stream between the Midi input and Forte. Here you can do "Midi Mute" (and a lot more).

-Michael

glenny_g
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby glenny_g » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:44 pm

Yes, I use Translator Pro and it is very handy but I'm not sure how it would work in this situation. All the midi coming out of my Translator is on ch 1. It is inside Forte that it gets split into different channels and it is the note receive parameter in each channel of each Forte instrument that I need to control.

Am I missing something? Would love to hear how I could use Translator to do it. Right now I use it to filter out aftertouch, remap a couple of controllers, and turn midi messages into Next Scene and Power buttons, and route midi inputs to virtual midi outs. Can't see how I could use it to turn off midi inside Forte if the note receive parameter is not mappable.

thanks

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby mschnell » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:12 am

Maybe you can get more help in the MidiTranslator forum. -> http://www.bome.com/forums/

In fact I do not fully understand the problem yet. What do you mean by "common on hardware multitimbral keyboards".

I don't know if/how Midi can be router out of Forte, through Translator and back into Forte. In fact I already recommended Bome to work together with Forte on a combined product that would be the most versatile Midi + Audio Workhorse ever.

What exactly is your setup ?

-Michael

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby mschnell » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:30 am

In fact I had the idea that the original request could easily be managed by Midi Translator Pro by just setting the sounds in Forte to react on different Midi channels and with a global variable in MT switch on and off generating the same midi event on the additional channel. (You can copy the note-off events to both channels all the time to prevent hangs.)

I feel that this is easily doable with MT and solve the problem.

But I do see that this - because it is pre-Forte - will not react on Forte's scene changes, and the different scenes would need to be re-created in MT. That might be a lot of work. But using just a dedicated controller-event to switch the additional channel on/off seems easy.

-Michael

glenny_g
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby glenny_g » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:18 pm

Yes, I'm wondering if I could have MT duplicate its output to a second channel and then anything I want to use as a layer in Forte gets assigned to that channel input. Then I could turn that channel on and off in MT, and make some kind of script that stops notes hanging.

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby mschnell » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:32 am


glenny_g
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby glenny_g » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:47 am

Thanks for the suggestions.

I made this preset for Midi Translator Pro. It works very well and does everything I want.

I wanted to recreate the common hardware feature found on multi-timbral keyboards where you can switch midi receive/local on and off for a sound, for instance to layer strings over a piano. The hardware waits for note off or velocity=0 before turning off midi receive so you don't get hung notes even if you turn the switch off while holding notes.

You can't assign a controller to turn the Enable Midi Notes check box on and off in Forte, so I decided to try doing it in Bomes Midi Translator Pro.

I'm new at this so it took a while and the first attempt worked but wasted polyphony. This one does everything I want.

Feel free to suggest refinements. I only defined a global value for switch=on for tracking purposes. It makes it easy to see if I get offsets wrong in the re-channelling versions of the translator.

Of course you can keep adding translators with the offsets updated for the remaining channels. Running this preset, and with your Forte instruments midi routing set up right, you can have any combination of up to 16 instruments without having to change Scenes, and you'll be seamlessly transitioning from one to another, even holding notes as you switch between different sound combinations. One Scene could easily see you through an entire gig.

So here it is.

Controller is transmitting on Ch1. Switches assigned to CC102, cc103, cc104 etc.
Check for note off messages > pass these through.
If controller is sending note-on-velocity=0 instead of note off, make it a note off message (saves polyphony)
If flag shows switch is off, don't transmit note on messages.
Check for CC message > check if matches the controller switch > set global variable flag

-------------------
Translator 1
(transmits on Ch1)

Incoming Message: pp qq vv

Rules:
if pp==144 then Goto "check note vv"
if pp==128 then exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
if pp==176 then Goto "check CC"
Label "check note vv"
if vv==0 then Goto "make vel=0 note off"
if ga==1 then exit rules, skip Outgoing Action
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
Label "make vel=0 note off"
pp=pp-16
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
Label "check CC"
oo=pp+qq
if oo!=278 then exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
oo=oo+vv
if oo==278 then ga=1
if oo==405 then ga=2
if ga==1 then exit rules, skip Outgoing Action
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action

Outgoing Message: pp qq vv

-------------------
Translator 2
(as above but changes channel to 2)

Incoming Message: pp qq vv

Rules:
pp=pp+1
if pp==145 then Goto "check note vv"
if pp==129 then exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
if pp==177 then Goto "check CC"
Label "check note vv"
if vv==0 then Goto "make vel=0 note off"
if gb==1 then exit rules, skip Outgoing Action
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
Label "make vel=0 note off"
pp=pp-16
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
Label "check CC"
oo=pp+qq
if oo!=280 then exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
oo=oo+vv
if oo==280 then gb=1
if oo==407 then gb=2
if gb==1 then exit rules, skip Outgoing Action
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action

Outgoing Message: pp qq vv
----------------

glenny_g
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:39 am

Re: for the wishlist: assign controller to note receive swit

Postby glenny_g » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:19 am

Code updated. See this thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4731


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