Latency

Post here if you are having a problem with or a question about forte that is not about a plugin or audio/MIDI hardware.

Moderator: MikeG

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Latency

Postby mschnell » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:05 am

Hi Experts,

Knowing that latency is critical for live performance and that for low latency we need decent system performance, I bought appropriately fast (end expensive :( ) hardware (Intel i7 4 cores / 8 Threads, 4*2.5 GHz, 16 GB Ram. I installed Windows 7 64 bit on the box.

At the moment, I am testing the system with Forte 3 64 bit, using a Tascam US 144 USB Audio interface with ASIO driver.

I can set the ASIO driver to "low latency" and "lowest latency" (of course other settings are not interesting here).

I set the sample Rate in Forte to 44.1 KHz (other settings selectable are 48, 88.2, 96, and 192 KHz).

For "lowest", Forte shows "Buffer size" 49 and latency 15.11 mSec. For "low", Forte shows "Buffer size" 128 and latency 22.81 mSec.

When I use the "Pianotq 4" stand alone Software, I can happily play the sound with the ASIO driver set to "lowest latency".

When using the Pianoteq 64 Bit VST (and nothing else) in Forte, I get what I suppose are dropouts (crackling sound), even when playing just a single note.

When setting latency to "low", the VST works fine in Forte.

Same is true for the "4front epiano" 64 Bit Vst (there is no stand alone program for same): crackling with "lowest", works fine with "low".

When playing, I don't notice any difference in the "keyboard feel" with "lowest" Latency (regarding my good old Roland piano sampler midi-extender box).

With "low" I do feel a slight "insecurity", due to the delay. (22 mSec means that I am some 8 meters away from the speaker. Correct ? )

What can I do to tweak this ? (In fact I am going to buy a new USB audio interface box some day soon).

Thanks
-Michael

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Latency

Postby Burtan » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:55 am

Hi,

I think the best you can do is getting a high-end interface. I can absolutely recommend RME here. I'm using an i7 quad-core 2,7GhZ (2,2 former) and play at 128 samples. My most demanding plugin is Kontakt with Cinematic Strings (which should be by far more demanding than the plugins you have listed). I'm quite sure that your plugins would work at 64 or even 48 samples.

ChristianRad

Re: Latency

Postby ChristianRad » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:14 am

RME and MOTU have the fastest drivers. I would also recommend to buy another interface. I'm running my MOTU Ultralite @ 128 samples and a latency of around 8ms, which is quite a lot and honestly for me not fast enough. With RME I do get better latencys...

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:05 pm

Thanks a lot for the replies.

I only borrowed the rather old Tascam for testing, so no damage done yet.

I did not think that the interface would make such a big difference.

I don't understand yet what the "buffer size " numbers in Forte mean 22,81 mSec @ 44,1KHz obviously is 1006 Sample, 15,11 mSek @ 44,1 KHz is some 666 Samples, while Forte states buffer sizes 128 and 49.

Given that I did feel good with 666 Samples your numbers "128 Samples" seem excellent. Did you get this via USB, or do you use FireWire (which I can't as my system does not provide FireWire out of the box and has no available PCI slot.)

I understand that Pianotec and especially 4Front should not be very demanding, especially I did not see more problems with playing many keys at the same time than when plying just a single note. So I understand that CPU performance is not a problem. I am going to try Kontakt 5 sample instruments ASAP, to see if there is a problem with those.

Thus it in fact is likely that the USB A/D box is the bottleneck.

I wonder if/when we will see USB 3 A/D boxes but I suppose I can't wait for them.

I did in fact consider the Ultralite for quite a while, but the new Behringer/Midas box is a lot cheaper (€150) and - given the latency is good - would be my favorite buy.

So I will need to find a way to try it before buying....

-Michael

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Latency

Postby Burtan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:28 am

RME offers both USB and FireWire in equal quality.
The latency Forte reports is meant to be more realistic as it does not only multiplies the samples with the sampling rate. That's why it's often a little bit higher than other applications report.

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:59 am


DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Latency

Postby DarkKman » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:46 pm

This is a fairly comprehensive database of many audio interfaces latency:

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:19 am

Thanks for the link.

I'll take a look.

I wrote to the music store where I intend to buy the I/O Box.

They confirm, that the driver is the main cause of such latency.

They say that the new Behringer/Midas box features a buggy driver and is not at all suited for low latency application.

They confirm that RME is the best choice on that behalf.

They say that they have good experience with the Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 which is rather cheap.

Maybe the Focusrite 6*6 is a good choice. (Seemingly it is the smallest Focusrite box with Midi and Phantom power, which I would like to have both.)

Thanks again,
-Michael

DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Latency

Postby DarkKman » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:58 pm

Hmm... During my analysis - see also my post here - for audio interfaces I discovered (via the link above) that focusrite didn't perform too well, but didn't actually get my hands on one...!

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:20 pm

Many thanks for the enormously valuable information !

Obviously my requirements are
- USB 2.0
- at least 2 output channels
- low latency
- symmetric outputs
- not too pricy (say < € 200)

My wishlist additionally includes
- Midi in
- two decent quality Microphone inputs
- Phantom power for the Microphone inputs

After looking at the database you posted - and after excluding the Behringer/Midas Box due to the experience the music store's staff had - I think, the obvious choice is the Native instruments Komplete Audio 6. It seems likely that NI did what they could to tune the interface for Latency, as VST Plugins is their core business.

Thanks a lot !
-Michael

DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Latency

Postby DarkKman » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:23 pm

That is one I DID try out (excellent piece of kit) and only opted for the Babyface in the end for the expansion possibilities... Good choice ;)

speedinator
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:21 am
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Latency

Postby speedinator » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:30 am

hi mschell,

the komplete audio 6 will work fine for all your needs. i remember the old days, when latency and driver-stability even of expensive audio interfaces made me go crazy, but nowadays most audio interfaces work quite well (even the cheap ones ;-). as a rme-user i would never go back, but if you don't need ADAT, exceptional mic-preamps, DSP and mixing functionality the native instruments interface has everything you need!

when it comes to low latency a well configured pc is at least as important as a good audio interface!

best, speedinator

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:34 am

Thanks for your comments,

-Michael

mschnell
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Latency

Postby mschnell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:49 pm

Today I ordered the Audio 6.
Lets see how it works...
-Michael


Return to “Forte and EHCo”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests