EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

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sosKeys
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EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby sosKeys » Thu May 02, 2013 1:38 am

Hi,

I have a couple of odd behaviors with EHCo/Forte, not sure where to look.

1) Some patches on my Yamaha S90ES (Sweet Oboe in particular) have a crunchy sound (non-periodic, sub-audio rate popping sound overlaid on the normal audio), particularly when moving the volume pedal (MIDI from Supernova II connected pedal, channel mapped and converted from CC02 to CC07 to accommodate the screwy pedal CC implementation of the SNII) . Switching the rack off and on again will rectify the problem, but it seems to recur after song/scene changes. This is a patch that uses the SNII as a controller for both MIDI notes and volume control.

2) On some scenes, the audible response of the rack to muting an instrument is quite long, in the 3-5 second range. I know it has happened with EHCo hosting a Supernova II, but may also be happening with other VSTs (Twin 2, SAM, Synthmaster 2.6). Tonight, the delay was reproducible early in the session, but not noticeable later on.

Setup particulars:

Version: forte 3.2.10 x64, EHCo latest
Interface: MOTU 828 Mk3, Firewire
PC: Supermicro X7SB, Core2 Quad Core Xeon, 8 GB RAM, Win7 x64--CPU is never shown over 50%. RAM at about 60% with rack loaded
EHCo instances: S90ES, Supernova II, UltraProteus
VSTs: Ivory Piano (2), Kontakt 4 (2), B4II, FM8(jbridge), Absynth 5, Pro-53 (jbridge), Reaktor Spark, Twin 2, Predator, SAM (OB SEM model, jbridge), Aftertouch to CC, Reaktor Prism, Synthmaster 2.6

All plugs are x64 unless noted as jBridge.

This is occurring along with general instability that seems to be increasing over the last several months. Tonight, on startup the interface had multiple stereo pairs pegged with white noise that required a reboot of both the interface and the PC to clear (first time this has happened). The crunchy sound occurs from time to time and can often be cleared by turning the rack off and back on.

Any thoughts on how to proceed are appreciated. I've tried increasing the buffer size to 256 without improvement, whereas I ran the system with 192 for a long time without difficulty.

Thanks,
-andy

MikeG
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Re: EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby MikeG » Mon May 20, 2013 10:09 pm

EHCo is not responsible for the audio output of a hardware device, except to send it MIDI. I couldn't guess what would cause that response from your Yamaha
----------------
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www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

sosKeys
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Re: EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby sosKeys » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:08 am

Update on this behavior:
I'm running four EHCo instances--Yamaha S90ES, Supernova II, Ultraproteus, and Ultranova. At least two of these (S90ES ands SuperNova II) exhibit repeatable crunchy noises when playing notes and moving the volume pedal. Cycling the rack "power" (<ctrl-P>) resolves the issue, , but a scene change makes it come back. The problem may be present on the other instances, but I don't use them enough to observe it regularly.
The volume is controlled by a MIDI pedal connected to the SNII coming in as CC2, Ch14. It is remapped to CC7 for all normal synths (that does not include the SNII :-( ). The crunchies are similar to, but much more pronounced than, the step glitches associated with the MIDI volume being only 7 bit (noticeable at low volume levels when the system is working properly).

JulienS
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Re: EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby JulienS » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:32 am

Hi,

Just a couple of thoughts :

1. I use MidiOX to filter out any unwanted MIDI data that could interfere (Sysex, clock, CCs) unless explicitly wanted, and put it at the very beginning of the chain ;

2. I don't know B4II (i use VB3), but could the periodic sound have something to do with a Leslie emulation noise triggered by the pedal?

-- edited --

a 3rd thought : Roland and Yamaha have different polarity for pedal wiring. Plugging a Roland EV-5 into the foot controller 2 input of my Motif ES made me hear the same kind of noises, a while back. Using a FC-7 solved the problem.

Julien

sosKeys
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Re: EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby sosKeys » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:21 am

Hi Julien,

Thanks for the input.

1. I'm reluctant to add another layer of complexity by putting MIDIOX on the front end and filtering, but maybe that makes sense anyway; I merge volume (CC2, a ridiculous Novation quirk) and sustain from different keyboards as needed, so when overlaid with splits and routing things get a bit complicated (pretty normal stuff for keyboardists I think).

2.My setup no longer uses B4II. Native Instruments doesn't support it, so I have finally switched to the Kontakt 4 Hammond library. That said, the scenes where I'm having the crunchy issues don't use the Kontakt instances... they are muted.

3. Funny thing about the pedal... I bought an FC-7 a few months ago to replace my aging Fatar (I think) pedal because of a dirty pot. The old pedal has worked for many years, thought the crunchy sound has occasionally popped up; both pedals produce the same result in that regard now.The FC-7 is a beautiful piece of work except that the taper is problematic: the first half of the MIDI values are in the first 1/5 (guessing) of the pedal travel, so it requires much effort to control the quiet portion of the range. Now I'm trying to use midiCurve to compensate, but the plugin crashes the host when switching away and back to the GUI... maybe a jBridge issue addressed by a recent upgrade, but I can't test for a few days.

Bottom line is that cycling the "power" on the forte rack makes the crunchy sound when moving the volume pedal go away. That says pretty clearly that the issue is in forte or EHCo since it is an internal control that makes it go away.

Anyway, thanks for the ideas on mitigation. Maybe another layer is required....

-andy

sosKeys
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Re: EHCo crunchies, delayed mute response

Postby sosKeys » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:03 am

I learned something interesting tonight... the taper with FC-7 connected to the Supernova II was quite problematic. Tonight I connected the FC-7 to the S90ES instead and found the taper to be qualitatively linear. Now I need to change all of the scenes to use a different MIDI port, CC (Novation sends CC2 regardless of the setting in FW). Tedious, but at least the Yamaha gear is more reliable in the long term.

The crunchies still exist on all EHCo instances that use MIDI volume; cycling the rack's "power" switch makes it disappear until the next scene change. Something going on here.....

-andy


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