Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

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jaytrax

Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:14 pm

Just to give you some background :

My set up is Musical Director for a full time band

I use a 2 keyboards on stage, A Roland Juno Stage & a Roland Fantom

I started integrating Brainspawn's Forte on my laptop running an i5 and 8 GB's of Ram into my setup
(For testing purposes i was using my internal sound card with Asio4all running 64 samples - response was acceptable for testing).
I have extensive sample libraries from Komplete 8 ultimate to Ivory etc all installed on an external hard drive.

The first problem i encountered was vibrations on stage - this made my "scenes" (patches i created in Forte) to jump randomly from one to another.

I still dont don't whether this is down to laptop or hard drive!

But to counteract this problem I place 3" foam underneath both the laptop and external hard drive and this seemed to solve the problem.

As this is not ideal for live situations it leads me to researching solutions.

My first thought was to possibly purchase a SSD (solid state drive) and hope as long as it wasn't the laptop that was jumping scenes but the hard drive then this would solve my problem.
Then all i would need is an audio interface - RME multiface with Express card for lowest latency.

Also my drummer is using a Roland TD-20 and if I used a midi merger (Midi Solutions) - providing latency was extremeley low, he could take advantage of my entire Toontrack libraries or Addictive Drums.

Is this achievable with the multiface ii and express card and a midi merger

My other option was to purchase a Muse Receptor 2+ Pro Max and use a midi merger.

I realise i have mentioned some competitor companies but
Can you please give me your expert opinions on what you think will best suit my needs.

Thank you for taking time to read this.

pchanez
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:48 pm
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Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby pchanez » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:42 pm

I doubt the HD are the issue ... If vibration would affect them, the PC would be problably crashing.

I would rather thing about the mouse/touchpad or keyboard ...
--------------------------------------------------------------
keyboard of dDT (Dream Theater Cover band):
http://www.ddtmusic.ch

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:57 pm

Thanks for your input,

I might look at temporarily disabling the touch pad and keyboard (if possible) to see if that eliminates the problem.
This really has me puzzled as its stopping me from using this great piece of software.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
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Location: Germany

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Volker Grosch » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi,

First off: I agree to pchanez. It would really be strange if vibrations would lead to scene changes. A total crash would be the result in most cases. I'd strongly recommend to find out the reason for the changes before bying SSDs or the like.

Concering RME Multiface: a very good decision. I also use one in my setup: extremly stable, lowest latencies and clean sound.

Concerning drums: why would you need a merger for this? A simple USB to MIDI cable will easily do the job. Additionally you can avoid latency of the merger. Forte is able to handle every rooting you like. Multiface can be used for seperate drum-audio lines.

Kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Thank you for your reply Volker

Re: crashing....Before placing the foam underneath I did experience a frozen laptop and had to force a reboot...

Re:The midi merger option was really only necessary if I was exclusively using a Receptor

My preference would be to isolate the problem and use Forte ?

Can you guess jow to go about isolating this problem,
Has anyone else had problems in a live situation,
I can run forte for 24 hrs a day in my studio environment without a problem

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Burtan » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:46 pm

I just want to throw in the RME Babyface which is USB powered and offers TotalMixFX. Just in case you don't like Express Cards.

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:04 pm

Thank you Burton

I don't think you can go wrong with any RME
I just thought card bus/express is the lowest achievable latency

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Volker Grosch » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:22 pm

Hi,

I was't aware you had a freeze - this changes the situation. I had 2 laptops and a desktop PC in stage during the last years and never observed issues you described. So I can't believe it's hdds that make the trouble in general. But of course it is possible you simply got a bad one. In this case there is no proper explanation for the scene change issue. All this sounds more like a weakness in your hardware.

To analyse the situation I would create testcase to reproduce the bug. This Gould f.e. be a Base-speaker driven with low-frequncy pulses or the like. Next step could be to deactivate mouse-pad and buttons and replace them by an external mouse. Same could be done with the keyboard if necessary.

If all this doesn't lead to a solution you could deconnect the hdd and try to ramp-up the laptop with a "linux to go" like knoppix directly from a CD.

Only some ideas on how you could handle the problem.

Regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:33 pm

Thanks once again

I'll certainly test these areas out

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:43 pm

Just one thing the sample libraries are on an external
Are you suggesting removing the laptops Hard drive and using knoppix

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Volker Grosch » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:46 am

Ah, o.k. think this was a misunderstanding: the idea was to disconnect the internal hdd and boot a linux from CD Rom to clearify if the noise is able to inflence the hdd. There is of course no possibility to drive forte under Linux!

Kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Dirk Offringa » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:07 pm

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

jaytrax

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby jaytrax » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:39 pm

Thanks so much Dirk for your contribution.

The fact you've experienced vibration problems makes me feel a little more at ease, the fact that I'm not the only one.

When you say the keyboard itself, are you suggesting opening it up to check and clean, as it's the laptops internal keyboard.
I might add its only a few months old too.
The connections from the 2 Roland keyboards are both general USB cables perhaps midi to USB might be a better option.

Again to clarify the midi merger was only an option if I was to abandon forte for a muse receptor
(which I really don't want to do unless I can get this fixed).

Out of curiosity what audio interface is your drummer going through
What's the latency?

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
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Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby Dirk Offringa » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:42 am

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

fab
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 am

Re: Vibrations on stage - causing jump in scenes

Postby fab » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:29 pm

i actually use the midi solutions quadra merge with my rme midi input. i didn'T like windows to rename or re-sort my usb midi hardware, that's why i only use one reliable midi port and the merger.


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