NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

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DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby DarkKman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:15 pm

Hi folks,

I have got my new SSD, upgraded RAM and now a shiny new version of Forte 3 x64 (upgraded from Forte 3 x86). I actually only have a couple of x64 VSTi's (Alchemy, Kontakt, Absynth and Battery). Alchemy is working fine as I only installed the 64bit version and let Forte do the rest. But the Native Instrument versions have x64 and x86 version installed in Program Files/VSTPlugins and Program Files (x86)/VSTPlugins respectively... I guess this is because I didn't really know what I was doing when I installed them (and not really improved any since then) :oops:

Anyway, as a consequence, the x64 versions are being ignored as "Duplicate older version of C:\Program Files (x86)\VSTPlugins\xyz.dll".

I tried manually ignoring the x86 versions that appear [jBridged] in the "VST Plugins" tab and then Rescanning the selected x64 versions in the "Ignored Files" but it just seems to rescan the x86 versions again.

So as Forte is creating [jBridged] versions of the x64 dlls in the Program Files/VSTPlugins, I decided that a workaround was to rename the x86 versions (in "Program Files (x86)/VSTPlugins") which I did by adding ".DISABLE" so Forte wouldn't recognise them as VSTi's. This is working fine but don't think its a very healthy way of doing this and despite searching the manual and forum I'm not sure how this SHOULD be done. Maybe it would be more sensible to rename the x64 versions as "xyz (x64).dll" but assumed this would probably break something somewhere...

I have VSTi's scattered all over the place (as I said earlier I didn't... okay... DON'T know what I'm doing - other than knowing how to program a synth) and so have lots of folders in the VST Scan Folder tab and was wondering if perhaps this determines the order of files that are ignored (e.g. those folders lower in the list will have their VST ignored if found in a folder above).

I'm sure I also saw somewhere (manual? forum?) about renaming duplicate x64/x86 (adding to DeviceCompatibility.dll?) but not sure what the "designed" method/approach is...

So hopefully (if any of this makes sense) someone can offer some words of wisdom :)

Thanks in advance folks.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby Volker Grosch » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:17 pm

Hi DarkMan,

what you described was one additional reason, why I decided to not let Forte decide which plugs to wrapp and which not. I don`t want to give you an advice how to handle this but can give you a description of the way I handle this (keep in mind: only my 2 cents on this):

1) I care to have all the 32bit plugs in ProgramFiles (x86)\... and all the 64bit plugs in ProgramFiles\...
2) I make a copy of those plugins I only have available in 32bit and store these in ProgramFiles\...
3) I make a copy of the jbridge file pluginname.64.dll (you will find this in ProgramFiles\JBridge\...) to ProgramFiles\ and rename it (substitute "pluginname" by the name of the .dll (f.e. if the pluginname is fm8.dll then the jbridgefile has to be renamed to fm8.64.dll)
4) I restart Forte and change the folder where forte shall search for plugs to only (!) ProgramFiles\... (not ProgramFiles (x86)!)
5) I disable the box where you can decide to allow Forte to automatically use jbridge (enable jbridge)
6) I clear any plugin list that was found before (VSTPlugins, Ignored Files, Crash Log)
7) I activate "Full Rescan Plugins"

If everything is o.k. I will find all 64bit plugs & the jbridged 32bit plugins, no doubles and no Ignored Files

But as I said before: only my 2 cents on this, :wink:

kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:08 pm

[quote="Volker Grosch"2) I make a copy of those plugins I only have available in 32bit and store these in ProgramFiles\...[/quote]

And you never had problems with registration (software copy protection, I mean)? There are quite some plugins that use the registry to store licence information and need the original install path to be able to authorize itself. It can work (obviously it works for your set of plugins), but I'd not certifie that this is a foolproof procedure.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby Volker Grosch » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:08 pm

Hi Dirk,

remember what I said: this is the way I handled this and I did not say it is foolproof. But too answer your question: no problems in my case (neither in former days nor now). But to be serious: I only have few "non 64bit plugs" (in detail: VB3, OP-X Pro II, B4II) atm. Can you tell an example from your experience where the problem you describe occoured (just out of curiosity)?

Kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby DarkKman » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:16 pm

Hey there... Thanks for the tips... I'm a little wary of moving .dlls around which is partly why I haven't run jBridge as an application in it's own right as the jBridger "recommended" solution is to move the dlls to a new folder - which makes sense I guess as (again) it avoids the issue of x64 and x86 VSTi's that have the same name. Also some of the VSTis install the dll via the installer and place a "presets" folder in the same place so I assume that all this moving would need to inlude moving the preset folder - just makes me a little uncomfortable not knowing if something will break (a common thread you'll notice - me breaking things) ;)

I'm happy working with what I have already done (renaming the extenstions of the duplicate x86 versions in Program Files (x86)/VSTPlugins) but suspect that this may come back and bite me.

I assume that simply manually renaming the x64 dlls e.g. kontakt 4.dll to kontakt 4(x64).dll would break stuff?

***EDIT*** After writing the above I had a couple of crashes with an existing x86 Forte Rack in Forte x64 (I'm going to have to investigate separately but with rehearsals and shows imminent I don't want to risk x64 immediately), so went back to x86 and of course couldn't load the rack due to all the "missing" dll's - so had to remove the fake ".DISABLE" extensions I added for all the x86 VSTi's. I'm considering uninstalling the VST's with both x64 and x86 versions installed and reinstall JUST the x64 version and rebuilding the Rack from scratch in Forte x64 - a bit of a nightmare but at least it'll give me a fair chance of testing x64.

DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby DarkKman » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:56 am

I thought I'd follow up as been configuring all sorts of stuff (gone back down to 44.1kHz from 48 set in Forte AND MOTU ASIO Control Panel and set ASIO4ALL with the "Always resample 44<->48")... And the 64bit versions are the ones now loading in "Manage VST Plugins" (along with a 64bit jBridged version)! Go figure!

Anyway, that's all well and good but just one last question from me that is likely a completely idiotic question:

When I load the x84 Rack file, it loads fine and I get the pop-up saying something like "Forte could not find "plugin_x" and replaced with a jBridged version" which makes sense for the x86 plugins it is saying this for, however the only x64 plugin (Predator - I only installed the 64bit version) I actually used in the x84 rack is showing up as "Predator[jBridged]". Now I'm not that fussed but does this mean that its not operating as a 64bit VSTi? In other words what is the functional difference between a x64VSTi and x64VSTi [jBridge] (if any)...

Sorry for the persistent questions :oops: I really appreciate the help :D

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:40 am

Hi

If that plugin is loaded "jBridged" it's still the 64bit version, but running in a jBridge AuxHost.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

DarkKman
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:07 am

Re: NI Kontakt 4 64bit ignored because of 32bit version

Postby DarkKman » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:57 am

Got it... Thanks Dirk :)


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