Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Post here if you are having a problem with or a question about forte that is not about a plugin or audio/MIDI hardware.

Moderator: MikeG

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:15 pm

Hi,

I have a strange issue here and hopefully there is someone with a good hint out there:

I use forte 3.0.44.3044_x64 and have a rack created consisting of: 2xDIVA (rev. 657), 2xOmnisphere, 1xFM8, 1xKontakt 4, 1xHalion4, and 1xVB3 and OP-X Pro II with jBridge v1.5 each. Besides there are brainspawns Automated Fader (as control for volume by a volume pedal) & Dirks Aux-Faders on each channel that drive EOS as send effect (reverb).

Everything runs fine so far (at the moment I work on a template rack which I would like to use lateron to derive scenes from it). So I created some simple scenes by activating only one instrument on a scene. This works fine so far and I`m also able to change scenes by sending program changes from my MIDI keyboard.

The problem: when I try to save the rack forte crashes without the possibility to send a report to brainspawn and without any hint on a plugin that could be responsible.

As the original rack could be stored (there is only one scene in it where all VSTis are muted) I now began to create the new scenes step by step, means: activate an instrument, create a new scene from it, trim the rack and save the whole rack. This works 2 or 3 times and a crash occours. This way I meanwhile was able to create the rack I wanted but with 4 or 5 crashes meanwhile. Also strange: the crash sometimes happens when trimming the rack, sometimes when trying to save it.

I use forte for some years now and am familiar with some issues that can occour but in this case I have no clue where the problem can be found in detail.

I should mention that DIVA is a relatively new VSTi and a real "CPU eater" (but the cpu is able to handle 2 instances!). I tried it in other hosts and had no issues with it. Nevertheless there could be a problem lying in the combination of forte and DIVA - dunno...

So, I would be happy if I could get some ideas from here,

kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Burtan » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:13 am

Have you tried doing stuff with Diva turned off in Save Mode? I have the same problem and I'm also using Diva, but it occurs quite randomly so I cannot do so much testing on it.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:10 am

Ah, o.k., never thought of this - I'll check it out.

Thanks, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Tue May 01, 2012 3:42 am

Hi,

I checked this: when rack was switched off, no crashes. When activating rack with both DIVAs substituted by proxys I got crashes again. Meanwhile I also had crashes with the possibilty to send a crash report to brainspawn. Maybe Mike has an idea...

Kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Tue May 01, 2012 8:13 am

Hi,

just as info: contacted u-he (DIVA) today concerning the problem. They have a forte test PC, got two rack-files from me and will have a look on it (may take a while though due to vacancies).

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Lucien
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:53 pm
Location: France

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Lucien » Tue May 01, 2012 12:35 pm

Hi,

For me, it's the same thing with Forte 3.
If I trim my rack, Forte crash when I save my rack.
I isolated the VST problematic. It's Kontakt 5.
I tried to leave with a new rack with only Kontakt 5.
After some scenes, it's the same thing.
With Forte 2, I did not have this problem.

Otherwise, all is well with Forte 3.

Regards.
Lucien

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Burtan » Tue May 01, 2012 12:39 pm

Regarding trimming, it is the same for Kontakt 4, but the crash upon saving could as well be another problem.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Tue May 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Hm, that`s interesting as I do the test with a rack where also a Kontakt instance (in my case Kontakt 4) is included. On the other hand: I was and still am not sure if it is a plugin- or host problem and also pointed this out in the u-he forum. To become things more clear I did some testing by deleting always one type plug in the rack.

With Kontakt deleted the problem still was there. But then: who knows what happens with the script in forte when Kontakt had been implemented and then deleted again?

A little info concerning the use of DIVA: I started with multithread mode activated and got the hint to deactivate it by Urs (mastermind of u-he). The crashes didn`t disappear but the times between crashes clearly increased.

So: probably I have a "double" problem here. Maybe I do a little test and delete Kontakt again - this time with deactivated multithread mode in DIVA... I will post here if I have any news.

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Tue May 01, 2012 2:18 pm

Last update for today: as promised I did the test with a rack where Kontakt (and a Halion 4) were deleted: crash remains.
Then a test, where DIVAs were deleted: crash remains. One crash in this last constellation ocoured during simply switching from one scene to another.

So far from here, regards, Volker :?
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Dirk Offringa » Tue May 01, 2012 2:46 pm

Hi guys,

When you say "I crash when saving, when does forte crash exactly?" When powering up after completing the save? Is the file actually saved? I posted some threads in the beta forum, and I believe this might be related to latency involved with thread switching with multicore processors. I might be totally wrong here, it's more an intuition (based upon what I know about computers and coding), but it has appeared several times to me that this is a possibility for some weird stuff we have encountered.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Hi Dirk,

There are 3 situations (beside the scene change thing I only observed once):
1) when initiating a trim operation (exactly when clicking the button)
2) when trying to save a rack (again when clicking the corresponding button)
3) when calling up the scene-manager (and again when clicking the button)

Racks are never stored.

Please keep in mind that this only happens from time to time (but much too often to be tolerable).

Regards, Volker
Last edited by Volker Grosch on Wed May 02, 2012 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Burtan » Wed May 02, 2012 3:23 am

I'm mostly getting a crash when pressing save (rack is NOT saved).
However, I tried to reproduce the crash with multicore off in Bios (so I had a single core CPU) and I still got a crash after 90min playing on my keys (no editing) and trying to save then.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Wed May 02, 2012 11:44 am

So all in all: there seems to be a more common thing as crashes could not only be initiated with DIVA on the rack but also with other plugs. I don`t want to directly talk about a bug in forte as it could also be common attributes of some plugins leading to this behavior ? :idea:

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby MikeG » Wed May 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Hi Folks,

I see the crash report you posted. I'm looking into it. Does it crash if you turn off audio streaming (turn off rack power) and then save?

Mike

For my references, this is crash id 64
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Wed May 02, 2012 3:15 pm

Hi Mike,

in my case: definitely not, crashes only occour with rack power on. Some more info: I took a rack in save mode and deactivated anything but one sort of plug. After more or less attempts I got the rack crashing with DIVAs or Kontakts (4) or Omnispheres. This doesn`t mean it would not be possible with other plugs, it`s only very time intensive to initiate a crash (or to be sure it doesn`t happen): so more was not possible in the meantime.

One more aspect: there were always 2 of the plugs activated in the rack, means 2 DIVAs, 2 Kontakts,... I tried to let it crash with only one instance of Kontakt and didn`t get it managed.

cheers, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby MikeG » Wed May 02, 2012 6:46 pm

Can you email me this rack?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby MikeG » Wed May 02, 2012 7:41 pm

I've confirmed that Forte turns off the rack streaming while saving the rack, so I can't figure out what would make it not crash by simply turning off rack power manually.
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Thu May 03, 2012 12:34 am

Hi Mike,

sure I can send you a rack but it will take time till evening (at the moment we have 7:30 a.m. here).

See you later, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Thu May 03, 2012 9:42 am

Hi Mike,

first off: how can I send you the files? PM isn`t available for me, in e-mail I see no possibility for attaching data files.

To clearify your finding: when I said no crashes with power off I meant: I`m making diversifactions on the rack, trim the rack and save it again with power off all time! I never went into a streaming mode in this case!

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Sun May 06, 2012 12:01 pm

btw: just tested with version 3.0.46: took a little longer but again a crash, this time, when trying to store a new scene (generally storing scenes seems to take longer than before?).

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

Burtan
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Burtan » Sun May 06, 2012 3:09 pm


Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Crash when saving or trimming Rack / Forte 3.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Thu May 10, 2012 11:41 am

Hm, you mean there were no indications on a fix of my problems? I was aware of this! But nevertheless did some test to be sure that it was fixed as sort of goody...

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...


Return to “Forte and EHCo”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest