Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Post here if you are having a problem with or a question about forte that is not about a plugin or audio/MIDI hardware.

Moderator: MikeG

peterpan73

Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby peterpan73 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:15 am

Is there any other multi VST host in the market without the audio drops on scene changes? As it is my live playing was compromised when I have had to remove Kontakt from the Bspawn rack owing to long sample loading times often ending in an hourglass issue. The audio break on scene change was the last straw. Does Kore or Mainstage have these problems, as this "audio break during scene change" is an extremely important factor for me before I buy my next Vst host?? I would appreciate any help/advice anyone could offer.

Dirk Offringa
Posts: 3508
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:44 am
Location: Sainte Anastasie, France
Contact:

Re: Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:34 am

Cross post: I posted a reply in the other thread.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:12 am

Hi peterpan,

generally spoken: if you handle with PC-based Software as Live Host be aware of lots of tweaking you have to do. The reason is simple: your system will be a combination of hard- and software products of totally different manufacturers. Any long time user of these solutions will tell you that there is a lot of work to do. If you want to get definitely rid of all the problems there is a very simple solution: use hardware-synthersizers! Of course you will find many users with systems running very stable and flawless. If you look behind you often have the situation of only a few plugs and not using sample based plugs at all.

The freedom to combine whatever you like in a host (theoretical only limited by the cpu performance) is on the other hand the biggest danger: less is more!

To answer your question I will give you an overview of the hosts I know and I had my hands on:

1) Forte: I`m aware of the audio bursts and I`m also aware of the freezes (hourglass issue) with kontakt. Really helpful in this case is the possibilty (and as far as I know forte is the only live host that is able to handle this in a proper way) to not load the content again with every scene change. This leads to dramtically faster change times and suppresses the hourglass issue. I think Dirk and fab gave you some hints in another thread you started here. Concerning audio bursts: to my experience this depends on several circumstances: number and type of plugs used, specially reverb plugs tend to make this happen, using jBridge can lead to these instabilities, too low latencies in the soundcard can be a reason for this and also unproperly programmed soundcard drivers can be a reason. Some plugs produce these bursts. A workaround can be to disconnect them from the audio bus during scene change (=> Scene Commands). This is typical and means a lot of work as I described above.

2) Cantabile: for me the only serious competitor to forte at the moment, some really nice features like pan, effects, compressor, MIDI-filters, media players, 64Bit support - but on the other hand - many nice features available in forte not available (!) f.e.: not a simple way of leaving the sample content available in the memory when changing scenes (means you can have the loadtime issue with kontakt again), complicated MIDI - Routing, uncomfortable way of sending program changes. The last most important disadvantage at the moment: the developer is not available since months and doesn`t update or upgrade the software since this time (please compare this with the support in forte!). All in all I can say: cantabile also has issues, situations where you get crashed, not in the same as in forte but in a new way, a demo and a smaller free version without limitation is available.

3) KORE: to my mind not a comparable solution to forte, more a soundbank system for NI-plugins, biggest disadvantage: discontinued since 22.06.2011!

4) VStack: discontinued and technically miles away from forte

5) Live Professor: interesting modular concept, not a solution in the way forte works and in my case not nearly as stable as forte (Demo available)

6) Blo Xpander: also interesting concept, different to forte and in my case not as stable and flexible as forte (Demo available)

7) Chainer: freeware, old, only able to chain plugs, far away from the possibilities of forte

8 ) VST Host (Herman Seib): as far as I remember freeware, interesting concept and for a freeware really useful but not in the league of forte

9) If you have a Mac available there is main stage as part of logic: I only know this software from the internet and cannot say anything about it

Summary: I have purchased versions 1 to 4 and tested each of them in detail. Also I`m aware of most problems I tend to give forte the winner position.

hope this could be of some help,

kind regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

peterpan73

Re: Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby peterpan73 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:56 pm

^^^ Thanks a ton Volker. I've been waiting for years for a satisfactory reply as yours. That was very informative. I wish you could tell me more about Mainstage. I have a lot of scene changes and recalling samples with Kontakt in Forte is difficult. I was beginning to like Forte when I first started running Battery with it there were VSTs I loaded in the chain on some scene that did not switch quickly enough though and the audio breaks were kinda abrupt. Kontakt will still be a nightmare and I might have to depend on hardware samplers for this. Thanks again for all the info.

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby Volker Grosch » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:29 am

Hi,

no sorry but due to the fact I´m not a Mac-User I never had my hands on mainstage.

Concerning Kontakt: did you ever implement it in the way fab pointed out with the video link in the other thread? The reaction time is incredible (like a hardware synth). The next question is: are you using jBridge on Kontakt to grab more memory? I observed some issues with this combination in the past (depending also on the version of jBridge).

At the moment I try to keep the number of sounds loaded permanently to forte as small as possible to not need to use jBridge under Forte 2. If I activate the "Do not ues per scene configuration data" thing in Scene Commands audio bursts don`t show any more.

If I were you I would start to build a rack with only all Kontakt instances I need, load all samples to them, activate the configuration in each plugin and then have a look if I`d get RAM issues (you can see this in the Memory Information in the Tools folder of forte). The next step would be to program some MIDI-Routings to have different Scenes available and then testing to change scenes very fast (probably with a Stress Rack).

If this worked I`d add more plugs and observe how they behave and if they any any special tweeking till I`d have the complete rack available.

In the future there will be Forte 3 available which should kill all this RAM issues. This will give us the possibility to migrate the existing racks and having access to much more sampler sounds.

Only my 2 cents,

good luck and regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

fab
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 am

Re: Audio breaks on scene change with Bspawn 2.0

Postby fab » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:40 pm

main cool thing with mainstage: tons of built-in features, sequencer integration, pretty looks.

biggest downside: no patch CHANGING, you need to (pre)load a new instance for each synth patch. so you waste lots of RAM and startup time if you have lots of patches in a concert. also: stability reports have not always been overwhelming!

mainstage is as hip looking as the apple hardware but i stick with forte.


Return to “Forte and EHCo”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests