Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

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hisdudeness

Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby hisdudeness » Fri May 27, 2011 8:37 am

Dear all,

I`m planning to upgrade my laptop from W7 32bit to W7 64bit due to upgrading RAM to 8GB.

When I run the current Forte 2.2.18 can I make use of the full RAM or is there a limitation?

As far as I understood the current Forte 2.2.18 is a 32bit application but also runs within 64bit enviroments.

What is the benefit of forte 3/jbridge within 64bit enviroments?

Thanks a lot for some hints!

Best regards
hisdudeness

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby Volker Grosch » Sat May 28, 2011 6:28 am

Hi,

as nobody seems to answer I try to give you some information:

32Bit OS: here a maximum between about 2,5 and 3,3 GByte of RAM can be used. This is due to the fact that the adress room with 32 Bit cannot be larger than 4 GByte (the missing somehundred MBytes are used for some other purpose I don`t remember at the moment). The next limitation concerns applications: here you are only able to grab up to 2 GByte for each application. So implementing more than 4 GBytes doesn`t make any sense as you never can use this overhead.

64Bit OS: as the adress room is dramatically higher you could handle hundreds of GBytes RAM (if the OS doesn`t internally have a limitation). There are 2 possible types of applications: 32 Bit applications. Most of them (to my experience I would bet on much more than 90%) can be run flawlessly as Win7 64 has available a sort of adapter calles WOW64 inside. It is automatically called up every time you start an 32Bit application in Win7 x64 - the user normally doesn`t notice this. In this case an application can allocate up to 4 GBytes of RAM as far as I remember.

Then the other possibility is to use 64Bit Applications. Here you only have the limitation that is implemented in the OS. F.e. Win7 x64 Home Premium has a limitation to 16 GBytes here as far as I remember (which by far shoud be enough for nearly all thinkable audio applications). If this not enough a Professional version should be used. Here you can use RAM up to the physical limit as far as I know.

The most important advantage of using a 64 Bit host is that also plugins (and here we primarly talk of sample based plugs like Ominsphere, Kontakt and the like) share the advantage of grabbing large amounts of RAM (the possible problem in 32 Bit would be that host and application crash out of the sudden when getting in RAM trouble). In this case forte 3 would be the most "linear solution" to solve RAM issues.

Using a 64 Bit host like forte 3 on the other hand could lead you to the problem that there may be plugs not available as 64 Bit versions. You won`t be able to load a 32 Bit plug into a 64 Bit host without using a sort of adapter. The best available is for sure jBridge (beside it`s really low cost). What it does is it encapsulated the 32 Bit plugin and makes the host think it would be a 64Bit plug. So adding jBridge will make the system complete.

What can you do till forte 3 really is available? Here again jBridge can help - this time in a different way: you can encapsulate a 32 (and principally also a 64Bit plugin) in jBridge and implement this into forte 2 as 32 Bit host. What is the sense of encapsultion of a 32Bit plug that shall work in a 32 BIt host ? The trick is that an encapsulated plug is a host process of it`s own and so is able to grab RAM independently from the forte or other encapsulated plugs. This means: althoug 32 Bit host and plugs have the limitation you can devide your rack into as many processes as you need to use an extra of RAM available in your PC.
:shock:
Maybe this was a little complicated and maybe some of the values I mentioned differ in reality. But I hope it could describe the principles behind,

so good luck and regards, Volker 8)
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

hisdudeness

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby hisdudeness » Mon May 30, 2011 2:58 am

Hi Volker,

thank you very much for this detailled answer!

So I will go and use Forte 2 with jbridge for the plugins in order to make use of my 8GB of RAM.
I want to use Komplete 7/Kontakt 4 with mainly the Scarbee Rhodes, Akoustik Piano, Alicia`s Keys and the basic Kontakt 4 content.

I noticed with my 32bit Win7 that when preloading Alicia`s Keys and three Scarbee Rhodes I`m out of my 4GB RAM already. I was using Elektrik Piano before but the Scarbee samples are a huge improvement as the Kontakt 4 content is for "Brot & Butter-Sounds" ;-)

A few questions still remain:
- Where is the difference/benefit of using Forte 2 with jbridge and Forte 3 (which should come by default with jbridge as far as I can remember to have read)?
- Is jbridge really working rock solid or do I have to face some freezes or other issues?
- Is jbridge taking any extra load of CPU or slow down the Forte startup in any way?

Thanks a lot and best regards
hisdudeness

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby Volker Grosch » Mon May 30, 2011 3:29 am

Hi hisdudeness,

well, using forte 2 & jBridge will make more RAM available. In this case you should have a look on creating more than one instance of Kontakt if you need a large amount of samples at the same time.

The main advantage of forte 3 x64 would be that you don`t need jBridge at all. In my case jBridge is running solid and the additional processor load isn`t noticable for me but generally spoken: every plug you don`t need is a good plug.

One (small) additional aspect of using a x64 Bit host can be an additional amount of performance. But this depends on the software (some operations can be running faster if the programmer uses the possibilities 64Bit operations provide). For forte 3: I don`t have enough experience with this software to tell anything about this aspect as it is not running on a Vista OS (which is my OS on my main PC).

One last hint on using Sample based Plugins on forte (maybe you alread know about it): If you use "Do not use per-Scene configuration data" in the Scene Commands folder of the plugin maked forte load all samples you every will use in one rack into the instrument at the start. This leads to a long start-up (it can be a minute if use many samples) but also to zero delay when changing from one Scene to another. A small video in which this is shown is available here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/brainspawnforte

Hope this can be of some help,

regards, Volker
hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

hisdudeness

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby hisdudeness » Mon May 30, 2011 4:20 am

Hi Volker,

thanks for the fast reply!

I`m using three instances of Kontakt:
- one for Pianos (Akoustik and Alicia`s Keys)
- one for E-Pianos (Elektrik and Scarbee)
- one for all kind of other Kontakt sounds (strings, brass and whatever else I need)

And yes, I`m well aware of the benefit not loading samples on each scene change. Using that for the large sample instruments already since a year.

Thanks for all your tips and best regards
hisdudeness

hisdudeness

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby hisdudeness » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:06 am


hisdudeness

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby hisdudeness » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:45 am

Please ignore my previous post. Found the issue which was as in most cases sitting in front of the computer. Just have choosen the d### wrong VST subfolder.

Thanks for ignoring me ;-)

hd

Volker Grosch
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Germany

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby Volker Grosch » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:12 am

hosts: Forte 4, AuxBusFaders, Cubase 8, Cantabile 2, Live9, jBridge
VSTis: u-he, Spectrasonics, NI, GSi, Synthogy, East West, TAL, Adam Szabo, Steinberg...
VSTs: u-he, Voxengo, Fabfilter, Lexicon, TB, PSP, NI, UVI, Waves,...

mhertzbe
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby mhertzbe » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Forte 4 hosting NI Guitar Rig, Kontakt, and Aux Bus Set on a Dell Precision M4700 with SSD and 24GB memory. Oxygen 88 keyboard/controller and Steinberg UR44 Midi/Audio I/O

maan

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby maan » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:09 am

Hello everyone, I installed 64-bit Windows Seven, it comes with two folders of program files: x64 and x86 program files, when I installed my plugins, they were automatically installed in the x86 file. Right now I'm having a lot of problems blue screen of death whenever I try to save and put a new plugin in the Forte. Should I reinstall the Forte, inside the folder of program files x64? and use the jbridge? Excuse my English, thank you

My setup is:
HP PAVILLION DV-6 2150us
WINDOWS SEVEN ULTIMATE 64bit
8GB RAM MEMORY
320 GB HD
CORE I3

maan

Re: Using Forte on W7 64bit - general questions

Postby maan » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:34 am

I searched the forums here and found what was my mistake. My mistake was that I had installed the Strong as my plugins folder in "Program Files x86, only I installed both my midi keyboard, as my audio card in the x64 Program Files folder, so I had serious compatibility issues, blue screen, then reinstall just the fort was in the same folder program files x64, that my troubles are over, thank the content Brainspawn this great forum, thanks.


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