VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

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hisdudeness

VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby hisdudeness » Fri May 20, 2011 9:07 am

Hi all,

I just came across the new Yamaha MOX6/8 which has a built-in 4-in 2-out USB audio-interface. This is not so much news but there`s a MOX Editor which can be launched as a VST3 plugin in Cubase.
Having this run in Forte to controll scene/programm changes with Forte, still make use of my NI B4II and the Scarbee pianos would be really cool.

But as I´ve seen it seems that VST3 plugins are some kind of "commercial VSTs" bound to Steinberg products?

Any plans to make them work in Forte someday (Forte 3?)

Thanks a lot and best regards
hisdudeness

Dirk Offringa
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri May 20, 2011 10:45 am

VST3 is currently, at least AFAIK, only supported officially in Steinberg products. There are some developers experimenting with it, (I'm on the developers mailing list so I have some ideas of what's going on), but it's far from going mainstream at this point. The VST3 SDK has a built in wrapper however, so that developers can build both VST 2.4 and VST3 plugins from the same VST3 source code. So it's far easier for the developer of your plugin to release a 2.4 compatible version so that his plugin is actually supported by the vast majority of hosts, than for Mike (and many other small companies) to implement the VST3 specs. If Yamaha chose NOT to release a 2.4 version, than yes, this could be part of a commercial agreement with Steinberg.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

hisdudeness

Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby hisdudeness » Fri May 20, 2011 11:23 am

Thanks for the information Dirk!

Best regards
hisdudeness

Ben H
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Ben H » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:35 am

Hi,

I was just wondering if there are some plans towards adding VST3 compatability, now that Forte 3 x64 is stable and out of the way?

The reason I ask is because Steinberg are starting to release some of their newer plugins as VST3 only (e.g. Padshop), and I can only imagine that the situation is going to get worse with time. :/

Kind Regards.
Last edited by Ben H on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ben H
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Ben H » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:47 am

Sorry to bump this, but I'm kind of stuck here because I would love to purchase this VST.
But I can't see myself switching from Forte just for the sake of one VST3.
Also AFAIK there is no "wrapper" available or under development to address this problem.

So is there any kind of workaround?

Thanks.

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:34 am

Basically that's a bit Steinberg's fault. VST3 is not mainstream at all. The VST3 SDK contains a wrapper itself, so that plugin developers can compile their plugin as VST2.4 and VST3 in the same run. If they don't release the VST2.4 version of their plugins that's nasty. VST2.4 today is THE standard.

Dirk
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Ben H
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Ben H » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:08 am

Hi Dirk,

I don't disagree with you that this is Steinberg's fault and also a matter of aggressive marketing on their part.
But eventually VST3 *will* become the norm, as more and more developers start to adopt the standard.

As to my own problem... you said that the VST SDK contains a wrapper for developers to compile their VSTs as either VST3 or VST2.4.
So would this work on a pre-compiled VST3 to wrap it to a VST2.4 or does it only work on uncompiled VSTs?

Ben

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:07 pm

No, it's a build option. BTW did you know VST3 doesn't even support MIDI CC's as we know it? It supports "Note Expression" instead. That means "CC-per-Note". VST2.4 and VST3 are totally different. The only thing in common is the company that owns the copyright on the SDK.

Dirk
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Ben H
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Ben H » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:00 pm

Yep. I am fully aware that VST3 and VST2.4 have nothing in common and that also VST3 does not provide a great deal of benefit over VST2.4. At the end of the day though, I just need my host to be able to run my plugins.

It must be tough for you guys to have to keep up with the ongoing madness. :/

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby evilantal » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:21 am

Sorry to bump this old thread up ;)

It seems more developers are migrating towards VST3. For instance u-he plugins now come as VST2.4 or VST3 dll's, which would suggest they're moving towards the new platform.
Also, I read that SynthEdit 64-bit, when it comes out (now in beta), will produce ONLY VST3 plugins, whereas SynthEdit 32-bit will produce VST2 plugins. Seeing as how a lare number of the best free plugins - and some great commercial ones - are made with SynthEdit, this could present a problem in the future.

What are the current plans concerning VST3 support?
Lenovo Z500, quad core i7 3632QM, 16GB 1600MHz DDR3, RME BabyFace, Samsung EVO SSD x2, forte 4, Kawai ES100, Kurzweil PC2, VB3, Alchemy, Kontakt 5, Omnisphere 2, Diva, ZebraHZ, Bazille, Pianoteq 5 Standard, Falcon, various effects

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:09 am

It's totally stupid to produce "only" VST3 plugins, given that the VST3 SDK, as I mentioned a while ago in this thread, offers a wrapper to build 2.4 plugins from the same code. It's just a matter of minutes to build additional 2.4 versions.

Dirk
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby MikeG » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:06 pm

If the momentum truly does swing that way I'll support but I don't feel the need to be on the leading edge. Native instruments is kinda my guidestone.

Vst 3 is non trivial and completely different I did look into it.
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Bfourcade
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Bfourcade » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi Mike!

I'm interested in knowing how the analysis of latest VST3 adoption might have changed (or not) Forte's roadmap regarding its support. Besides the technical discussion on whether VST3 is a better/worse standard or if with 2.X a plugin can accomplish what a musician need, or if it is a marketing move from Steinberg, the sad and true reality is how the market reacts. Some key vendors are offering their new versions of their product as VST3 only (i.e. Antares) (along with other formats) abandoning VST 2.x support. So this will leave musicians to ensure their hosts support the new VST3 standard regardless of any of the former arguments. What I mean, it makes non sense to discuss VST3 vs VST2.x from the technical PoV but from the impact it has in the market and the options musicians will have when they need to pick/change their hosts.
Off course the technical feasibility of extending Forte's architecture to support both is completely beyond my reach :) :) and you are the authority in that field here, to measure when is time to invest.
So a long question made short: :) Any changes on this area from roadmap PoV?. Should we start considering complementing forte with other hosts in order to use plugins available only as VST3?

Best!

Bernardo

Bfourcade
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Bfourcade » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:44 pm

Hello? ....
...is there anybody outhere?...

MikeG
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby MikeG » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:54 pm

VST3 is on the list. However for Forte 4 it still fell below the cut line. I have a high priority list (this time of UI things) that I think are badly in need of attention. The basic strategy is "get the house in order" before extending to new stuff.

I'll keep my eye on VST3. I agree Forte needs to support it but until somebody major like Native Instruments drops VST2 I'm not going to feel like its an emergency. Let me know if you know differently.

Its certainly doable, just a big effort.

Mike
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snowbird122
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby snowbird122 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:43 pm

The main reason I want VST3 support is because I still have to use TC Helicon hardware boxes for live pitch correction. The only decent live pitch correction vst is Antares Auto-Tune Live, which is ONLY vst3. Until Forte supports VST3, I still have to manage all my presets on a dedicated hardware box, and I still have to keep my set lists in sync. It would be SO much easier if VST3 was supported by Forte.

Bfourcade
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Bfourcade » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:29 am

Thanks Mike for the reply. First of all let me tell you that I'm a big/huge fan and advocate of Forte since many years and my support is unconditional, so please take my words as constructive comments please :)
I'm just an user but I love Forte and I really want to see it becoming the defacto solution for live set ups :)
I absolutely respect the position. There should be a cut line and your priorities are right given the capacity and focus in stability. I understand that more capacity will be very beneficial for keeping-the-lights-on and extending the product at the same time.
Just seeing how MainStage for MAC (with half of the flexibility that Forte offers in PC) is being widely adopted in professional live gigs makes me wonder how can we raise awareness of Forte and grow the user base. And I can see how UX changes are high in your list.
My thoughts are that from a product positioning, Forte is Windows/VsT only. In that case being VST the only (or the most important) plugin standard being supported, it should ensure full support to it as it evolves. If Forte were also supporting other Windows and Mac plugin standards (Au, etc), a partial support for one of them is compensated by the others, giving musicians more coverage. In this case there are already indications of where the market is moving with regards to vst3. As an example I can't use AutoTune anymore with my favorite and beloved VST host, just because Antares decided to focus in the latest/greatest version of the standard since major hosts already updated to it. But the market observation we should make is not on VST vendors dropping VsT2 support, but Host vendors updating to Vst3. That will make the other side to move very quickly (even more with Steinberg pushing for it). So today we need to cross our fingers hoping vst vendors we use just don't update and keep support to the old standard. As Hosts evolves, most of them will be forced to support it, which will make vst vendors drop vst2 support immediately.
Anyways, my thoughts :)
As said before, huge supporter of Forte and proud evangelist and advocate of it since a few years. Just wishing the best for your product and wondering how features evolution can keep the pace for how everything is evolving at this time. Thinking loud, any effort invested in extensible or modular architecture were others can contribute (why not monetize) could be a way to accelerate. As an example desinvesting in SceneView by supporting OSC and letting others innovate on views and controls. Just an example.

Again, sorry for the long post. By no means this is criticism. Just sharing my thoughts that, of course, can be completely wrong :)

Best!

Bernardo

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby MikeG » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:34 pm

Hi Bernardo,

Thank you for our comments. I appreciate your advocacy of Forte. I have downloaded the VST3 SDK and am looking at it but it won't make Forte 4.

If anyone ever gets around to a comparison of Forte and Mainstage I would love to see it.

Mike
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PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby Burtan » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:11 am


MikeG
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Re: VST3 plugins (still) not supported in Forte?

Postby MikeG » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:02 pm

But only if it shows how forte is better :)
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