Getting click track to drummer

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bencrossman

Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Mon May 16, 2011 8:14 pm

Hi

In one song I use an appegiator which is synced up to Forte's transport control.
I then set my sustain pedal to enable/disable play.

The drummer uses an iPod with a metronome app set on the exact same tempo. He clicks me in and I time the pedal press to enable play.
It sometimes works but isnt ideal.

Anyone got any other ideas for a setup where the drummer and my appegiator VST are in sync?

Cheers
Ben

Meistermacher
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby Meistermacher » Tue May 17, 2011 1:58 am

Hi Ben,
We had the same issue in our band. 2 PCs with forte and the same bmp. But not the same timing!
Add a Metronome VST to Forte and assign the out to an output of your soundcard. This signal you could send to his submixer or headphone amp of your drummer.
Greetings
Gert

bencrossman

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Tue May 17, 2011 8:07 pm

That would work but I dont have any spare outputs on my audio card (just left/right) which is to the main desk.
I dont really want to buy a new audio card to get a click track to the drummer.

Dirk Offringa
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby Dirk Offringa » Wed May 18, 2011 3:29 am

Hi

Forte can output Midi clock via ECHo. I use that feature to set the tempo on external equipment such as FX racks, and my Boss GT6 pedalboard. Works perfectly fine. But you drummer must have a device that can sync to midi and output a click.

You don't have any other choice if you don't have any spare audio outputs.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Angel
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby Angel » Wed May 18, 2011 8:09 am

I use arpeggiators often in my sounds, for example from Hypersonic or with short looped melody samples in Kontakt. The length of these arpeggios is typically one or two bars only. So I re-trigger these sounds every one or two bars on the keyboard manually. A little bit of release time in the envelope helps to smoothly blend the loops. If required I play these arps in different tunes on different keys on my keyboard, for example for fast accompaniment bass sequencer sounds which I could not play in real-time or when I'm simply to lazy to play a repeating sequence at 140 bpm for a whole song.

Our drummer doesn't have a click on his monitor or in-ear. So usually I re-trigger the loop with the keys every some bars right in sync with the drummer. Works fine as long as the drummer isn't too much away from the right tempo. Works best if the drummer has enough of the keyboard sound on his monitor and the keyboarder (me) listens well to the drummer so they groove-lock to each other. We are quite happy with that. It's more fun to listen and keep the groove for yourself than feeling like a slave to an external click or by complete backing tracks or sequencers. But yes, we also had some gigs where we audibly were out of sync even within some bars in spite of retriggering. The tap-tempo function in Forte could help, but our overall timing was worse with it.

I'm thinking of using a click from Forte to the drummer for my next version of my live rack as Dirk or Gert described.

Angel

bencrossman

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Wed May 18, 2011 6:41 pm

Yeah my old appegiator worked that way. Every bar I would play the chord and it would restart from there. Worked great live with the drummer as long as he was roughly in time.
But now I'm using Sonic Projects OP-X PRO II. It only syncs to the transport clock.

So sounds like my options are:
1) Get another midi out and use echo to a device that can sync midi tempo and click
2) Get another audio out and use a metronome VST
3) Work out a way to make the OP-X PRO II VST resync every key press.
4) Work out a way to make Forte's play transport turn on everytime I hold a key or make it sync when I press a key?

Dirk Offringa
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu May 19, 2011 1:41 am

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

bencrossman

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Thu May 19, 2011 2:12 am

oohhh I like that idea, will try it out tonight!

Thanks

Ben

bencrossman

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Thu May 19, 2011 6:28 pm

Ok that kinda worked. Just need to make all notes go to the same CC since you can only pick one in the transport control and yes if it could send it twice that will help with the toggle problem.

I have a bit of a VST template myself so might have a go tomorrow coding that up.

Cheers for the help
Ben

Dirk Offringa
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby Dirk Offringa » Fri May 20, 2011 3:20 am

I made a try sending the same CC twice in a row and that didn't work: it even seems it reveiled a bug in the VMI code, I'll have to look into that more deeply.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

bencrossman

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby bencrossman » Fri May 20, 2011 10:24 pm

Ok its all sorted now.

Thought about it and realized there was no reason to use the arpeggiator inside OP-X PRO II (the one that synced to host).
Now you explained how VMI worked I simply added a new arpeggiator plugin (I used XT Energy 2) and made it a VMI then made that the input to OP-X PRO II
Works great and allows me to play with the drummer live without losing the groove like you can playing with a metronome.

The only slight difference is if I play two notes the old appegiator would just pick the top note where as the new one adds both notes to the arpeggio.
Is there a Midi VST that emulates a sort of monophony?

Thanks for the help

Cheers
Ben

xpansion
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby xpansion » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:56 pm


DarkKman
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby DarkKman » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:10 am

Hey there, I know this was directed at Dirk but I use a pedal for triggering loops while my hands are free to play keys (Using Line 6 FBV Express MkII) which outputs CC. I use MIDIOX (MIDI Data Mapping option) to translate this to a MIDI Note using Virtual MIDI Cable - I, personally, have found loopMIDI to be the most stable on Win7/8 x64.

Hope this helps...

evilantal
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby evilantal » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:21 am

Just to chime in...

loopMIDI here as well
coupled with Bome's MIDI Translator
Lenovo Z500, quad core i7 3632QM, 16GB 1600MHz DDR3, RME BabyFace, Samsung EVO SSD x2, forte 4, Kawai ES100, Kurzweil PC2, VB3, Alchemy, Kontakt 5, Omnisphere 2, Diva, ZebraHZ, Bazille, Pianoteq 5 Standard, Falcon, various effects

xpansion
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby xpansion » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:26 am


evilantal
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby evilantal » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:57 am

The way i do it is using Bome or MIDIOX as a sort of portal pre forte.
I make a virtual midi port for each of my controllers with loopmidi and connect my physical controllers (usb ports) to those in MIDIOX. I then use only these virtual midi ports as inputs in forte; as if they were the physical controllers.
You can then do all sorts of filtering before the midi enters forte. No need for ehco.

As an added advantage this works as abb extra layer of protection. When a controller is accidentally disconnected you don't have to restart forte in order to get the port working again, but only MIDIOX. Much quicker.
Lenovo Z500, quad core i7 3632QM, 16GB 1600MHz DDR3, RME BabyFace, Samsung EVO SSD x2, forte 4, Kawai ES100, Kurzweil PC2, VB3, Alchemy, Kontakt 5, Omnisphere 2, Diva, ZebraHZ, Bazille, Pianoteq 5 Standard, Falcon, various effects

xpansion
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby xpansion » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:54 pm

evilantal,

I like your approach and the reasons for it. It would however take me a few days to remap all my controllers through the virtual ports in my primary racks so I will have to hold off on that. I have had the occasional disconnection of a USB cable by accident that would be great to mitigate using this method.

Can you think of any reason why my echo approach wouldn't work though? That might be a quicker hit for me in the short term?

thanks,

X

evilantal
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby evilantal » Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:06 am

If EHco has a straight MIDI through option (never looked into it), that would indeed work.

But...changing your physical ports to the virtual ports as I described is not hard in forte. You can just choose change hardware profile and exchange your physical ports for the virtual ports. That way they will instantly be exchanged in all scenes in the rack using the same MIDI settings (chanels, layers, filtering, etc.).
Lenovo Z500, quad core i7 3632QM, 16GB 1600MHz DDR3, RME BabyFace, Samsung EVO SSD x2, forte 4, Kawai ES100, Kurzweil PC2, VB3, Alchemy, Kontakt 5, Omnisphere 2, Diva, ZebraHZ, Bazille, Pianoteq 5 Standard, Falcon, various effects

xpansion
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby xpansion » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:11 pm


evilantal
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Re: Getting click track to drummer

Postby evilantal » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:29 pm

Another possible advantage, that I've never had occur thankfully..
If your controller dies at the gig, god forbid, any available controller (another band's for instance) will easily substitute. Just reroute the new controller to the virtual port in MIDIOX ;)
Lenovo Z500, quad core i7 3632QM, 16GB 1600MHz DDR3, RME BabyFace, Samsung EVO SSD x2, forte 4, Kawai ES100, Kurzweil PC2, VB3, Alchemy, Kontakt 5, Omnisphere 2, Diva, ZebraHZ, Bazille, Pianoteq 5 Standard, Falcon, various effects


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