4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Post here if you are having a problem with or a question about forte that is not about a plugin or audio/MIDI hardware.

Moderator: MikeG

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:11 pm

Hello,

I have a rack with 4 midi keybaords with many VSTs and many splits and layers. I am puzzled bacause some times after I have worked with the setup, the layering and splits, I'll open the rack and two of the midi keyboards are "disabled" in the midi routing. Yet the last time it was saved, all keyboards were enabled and were working properly. Worse yet is that the Rack forgets the layering and splits. The midi keyboards are still active, If I enables them, there is midi communication. Why is the keyboard routing not saved correctly?? I am puzzled..

yamus
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:36 am

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby yamus » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:23 pm

What are the 4 midi keyboards you are using? Please give the driver names as well. Could be related to that. When you're messing with your patches and what-not, do you always have all 4 keyboards attached? If you change things up and update a scene without the keyboards attached, that could cause a problem.

Also, what version of forte are you running?

-Mike

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:29 pm

Yes. I am interested in your midi port names and order. Also are they USB?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:16 pm


pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:18 pm


MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:23 am

Pedrosura. Can you post the actual midi port names as they show up in the midi preferences page in order?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:41 am

Here are the ports as they appear in the midi page...

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:08 pm

On a another execution of this Rack I loaded the same rack and when I went to Preferences and looked at Midi ports I saw the following:

Automap MIDI
Yamaha KX1
Yamaha KX2
Yamaha KX3
USB Axiom 61
MIDI (USB Axiom 61)
Akai 61
MIDI (Akai MPK 61)
MIDI (Akai MPK 61)
3 BCR 2000
CME UF MIDI (CME UF)
MIDI (CME UF)

My problem is that this order has been changed now. And now two of the keyboards are switched! Isn't Forte supposed to associate the keyboards splits, layering, transpose according to what the name of the keyboard is and not the order that it is on this Midi port Page?
I am just confused and baffled as to what's wrong with this Rack. What am I doing wrong? What is the significance of this order and how do I control it? Am I supposed to check the autoload midi configuration checkbox?

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:54 pm

Which exact build is this a problem on? 2.2.6?

I ran an experiment where set up two fake MIDI ports, set up different splits/filters on each port for a plugin, then swapped the order (keeping the names, but swapping order). Forte recognized the ports and preserved the filtering just fine.

Do you agree this is similar to what you are doing?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:56 pm

One note: If two ports have the same name (your two instances of MIDI (Akai MPK 61)), Forte will NOT be able to tell them apart if they switch order.

Do you have any control over the port names?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:11 pm

Am I not seeing correctly or are many of your port names completely different in the 2nd list?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:29 pm


MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:15 pm

Windows can cause the order to be different. However, as long as the names are the same, Forte should be able to select and match them up with the rack file correctly.

However, your first list has a MIDIIN (USB Axiom 61) whereas the 2nd list has a MIDI (USB Axiom 61) --- typo or a real difference?

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:11 am

Yes, it is a typo.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:55 pm

Thanks for the information. Let's get to the bottom of this (and I'm going to need your help).

Can you please send me a set of files (ZIPPed or whatever) via email to support at brainspawn dot com, containing:

1. Your rack file
2. Two screenshots showing the MIDI port order in preferences when they are different - designate which one is the one that causes you problems
3. A very specific place to look in your rack file (scene, plugin, port, channel, etc.) to look for messed up MIDI filtering. I need to see it "messed up" to diagnose it.

I think this should be all I need to see it.

Thanks,

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:07 pm

I will do. Thank you very much. Have you seen others plug in 4 keyboards like I have without any problems? I have a laptop with Win 7 dual core, but I have nothing running in the background. No even wifi.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:12 pm

Hi, any update on this? I'll look at it when I get the information I need from you.

Thanks,

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:53 am

Hi Mike,

I have been trying to figure out what is the root of this problem. The problem is that it is somehow random. Sometimes I start the computer and when I run Forte the midi ports in Preferences/midi are in the correct order. Sometimes I start the computer and the order is wrong. If this order is wrong then the Rack will not work no matter what because the keyboards will be switched. So, the problem happens before loading the rack. Why? Does it matter if I run Forte with wifi on? Why doesn't Forte just recognize the midi keyboards by name regardless of order.
The keyboard being in the wrong order doesn't cause the problem, the problem is that the rack uses this order to assign the split, layers, etc..as oppose to the keyboard name.
So, with this in mind, what is the best way to troubleshoot? I don't even know how to recreate it. It just happens some times...Thank you for taking the time to look into this.. Has anyone had a problem using more than 2 keyboards?
Let me know how to proceed...

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:29 am

The problem for me is that I can very deliberately create a "reversal of ports" scenario and a test rack loads just fine. Forte does reconcile by port name, not just order.

This is why I need the data I asked for on the 1st page:

A set of files (ZIPPed or whatever) via email to support at brainspawn dot com, containing:

1. Your rack file
2. Two screenshots showing the MIDI port order in preferences when they are different - designate which one is the one that causes you problems
3. A very specific place to look in your rack file (scene, plugin, port, channel, etc.) to look for messed up MIDI filtering. I need to see it "messed up" to diagnose it.

I'm sorry this is going so slowly. I don't doubt you are seeing some problem, but my simple scenario of creating a rack file using several ports, then swapping the ports (using a "fake MIDI port" scenario here: http://www.brainspawn.com/wiki/index.ph ... our_system) doesn't break forte.

Perhaps you could use the instructions at http://www.brainspawn.com/wiki/index.ph ... our_system to force your failure scenario?
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby pedrosura » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:40 am

Alright. I'll set up a simple Rack With 2 scenes that have different splits and layers so that if there is a mixup they will not work. I'll send that out to u. Thank u very much

pedrosura
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 pm

Progress

Postby pedrosura » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:17 am

Hi Mike,
I did s test on a small rack. Even when the ports were in a different order it worked. So, the problem is with the large Rack I am using. I'll have to send the picture of the midi order that causes problems and the 2 racks. The racks are quite large >(10 Mb) but I'll send both.

MikeG
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:56 am
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby MikeG » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:39 pm

I think I know what's going on here.

2.2.6 and prior versions didn't always report port name/ID matches for every single MIDI port in the rack file. If those that weren't recorded swapped locations it could cause the port mapping to swap too.

This was fixed in 2.2.7 but requires that you load the rack, get it working the way you want and resave it. See http://www.brainspawn.com/wiki/index.ph ... 21.2C_2010 for details. Its the line in 2.2.7 that discusses "runt" profiles.

Please let me know if this doesn't solve the problem.

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

hisdudeness

Re: 4 Midi Keyboards and Show Up as "Disabled" on Rack

Postby hisdudeness » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:22 pm

Hi guys,

I faced the same or at least a similiar problem:
Once I tried to import some scenes from another rack (same Midi/Audio I/O config) my Midi routings were lost. The main midi ports I was using were disabled although no port name or anything else (usb ports neither) had changed. Also my control surface wasn't working anymore although it was shown in Forte with the correct settings.

Ok, I did even the same mistake like some others with saving and overwriting my backup files to often/fast. But since I'm a paranoid regarding data loss I had still my backup (mirror) HD where the original rack was saved the last time a month before when the rack was definetely working.
But to my surprise after I copied that to my live HD it wouldn't work either! That was a point were I got really nervous. Then I found this thread.
YES, I was running version 2.2.6 and YES everything is fine now with version 2.2.14! I just installed the new version and imported once again the old rack file from my mirror HD.

I wasn't aware the fact that Mike is working so hard releasing continously new versions with bugfixes.

A BIG THANK YOU Mike and to the others keeping this forum so excellent and usefull!!!

Best regards
hisdudeness


Return to “Forte and EHCo”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests