Midi input ports exchange?

Post here if you are having problems with audio or MIDI hardware within forte

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Sonoacustico
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Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Sonoacustico » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:16 pm

Hello everyone,
I've been searching on the forums to see if anyone had this issue, but didn't find it so here it goes.
I was used to work with only one Midi input port (either my Edirol UA101 or Presonus Audiobox USB). I added a Korg nanoKontrol and a MOTU Fastlane (2x2 midi io interface) Forte saw them all and I went through programming till I was happy with it.
on the Midi routing tab for each instrument I saw the list of input ports as this:
-Presonus Audiobox
-Fastlane Input A
-Fastlane Input B
-nanoKONTROL

I turned everything off and came back the following day to do some tweaking, to find out that the configuration was totally messed. I went to the Midi routing tab and noticed the order of the input ports was changed:
-nanoKONTROL
-Presonus Audiobox
-Fastlane Input A
-Fastlane Input B

thus, what I had originally programmed for presonus Audiobox (first device) was configured for nanoKONTROL (first device on the new order), fastlane A (second original device) was configured for Audiobox (new second device), etc etc.
As a workaround I could re-connect my midi controllers to the corresponding ports, but had to get rid of the nanoKONTROL, since the ONLY way to connect it to forte is through USB, so I'm just not able to plug it into another port (it doesn't have a dedicated MIDI out)
I checked everything that came to my mind and couldn't find an elegant solution of this. It would be very good if there was "move up" and "move down" options on the midi input ports. Still I have no idea why they changed the order in the first place! (I didn't even unplug anything, just turned the system off once and they had changed. And it happened twice, after two turn off's) For the immediate future I can live without the nanoKontrol, but I'd really love to be able to use it!

Thanks for the help!

Claudio

fab
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:20 pm

hi, unfortunately the way windows handles usb devices is not reliable. best bet would be to use only one multi-input usb midi interface - doesn't work for nanokontrol. of course. i have the exact same problem - so i installed mapletools midi ports (virtual midi ports) and use only those in forte. i run the mapletools software or midi ox to connect the hardware to the virtual ports. this way i can sort out any problem very quickly.

maan

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby maan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:30 pm

I'm also having the same problem. I'm using two controllers Maudio, a Oxygen61 and other Axiom61. My notebook has 4 USB ports, but when I turn it back on the next day, he switches the ports of the controllers would appreciate any help, thanks. :x

maan

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby maan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:44 pm

Fab, hi , please put a link to the program mapletool that you are using, thanks

Dirk Offringa
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:08 am

One day forte should get this right by itself, even if it is probably a Windows issue. We shouldn't need an 3rd party software to do the patching.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

fab
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:02 am


MikeG
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby MikeG » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:35 am

----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

fab
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:10 am

several of my devices are named "usb audio device" (unlike the motu midi interface, which gets recognized as "fastlane a, fastlane b"), ports are numberd either (1), (2) or [1],[2]. so i get:

usb audio device
usb audio device (1)
usb audio device [1]
usb audio device (2)
usb audio device [2]

it's a matter of hit and miss then which ports belong where and which is which interface... so i make sure that forte only sees "maple tools input 1" and copy everything i need there by means of the maple tools virtual midi cable.

at rehearsal start i usually have a 5-minutes-trial-and-error to work out how all the necessary ports need to be connected to maple tools. fortunately, this does not require restart, neither of forte (that would mean reloading x minutes each) nor maple tools software.

so: forte should support some sort of virtual or global midi configuration, where you can connect the rack midi maps with actual midi input ports and do some basic copying and filtering.

(in my special case i actually need the virtual ports for copying midi data to reaper - i record our rehearsal to midi and audio.)

MikeG
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby MikeG » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:47 am

I think the problem though is that if you have multiple devices simply called "usb audio device" there's NO way to tell them apart. All I can do is get the order and names from Windows. If the names are all the same, the order won't do me any good.

Mike
----------------
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www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

fab
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 am

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:35 pm

yes, i understand.

(there may have been problems with named ports for others, too, but that's the one i experience.)

the things "virtualizing" midi port mapping in forte can achieve is:

- quick trial/error debug. now i turn some knobs, change ports in maple (throw out unused ones e.g., put in the right ones) and can start playing. no need to restart forte, reload rack, try again etc.; if i had more than 4 inputs, i could even leave in most of the unused ports.

- with virtual ports you can't inadvertantly save something that has been wrongly mapped.

good discussion, btw. i will start optimizing a bit, perhaps by using less usb interfaces.

Angel
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Angel » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 am

Another handy tool that comes with its own virtual midi ports is Bomes MIDI Translator Pro:

http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

You don't need to use the translators which are a bit cryptic at first, you just could use the virtual midi ports and the mapping from hardware to virtual inside MT pro.

BTW, I got used to plug every device into the same physical USB port on my laptop all the time. Luckily I have only one device which uses the generic "USB audio device" driver, all others have their individuall driver with unique names.

I second the idea that Forte should have its own virtual MIDI ports. Could be a kind of a patch bay in the options dialog where physicall MIDI I/O as well as VMI are mapped to virtual ports inside Forte. All modules get and put MIDI data from/to these virtual midi porst rather than referencing physicall midi ports which might change quickly.

That could also integrate with the hardware profils. Same could be done with audio. Map physciall audio I/O to busses.

Angel

sosKeys
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby sosKeys » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:07 pm

I'm puzzled... my setup uses three USB MIDI interfaces--Yamaha S90ES, Korg K25, and Midisport 2x2--along with a MOTU 828 Mk3 and MidiOverLAN CP, and I have never had a problem with the ports getting confused. I'm running Win7 x64, but had the same results with XP Pro before. The devices are always plugged into the same ports, but otherwise I take no special precautions.

BTW, my band's DAW using Sonar 7 on XP Pro gets the MIDI interfaces messed up all the time. It is almost always necessary to go in and configure the ports for the Tranzport before it will work properly even though it is usually the only physical MIDI device in use (we use MOLCP to get the keys MIDI from my rig to the DAW).

-andy

maan

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby maan » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:33 am

Will they fix this bug in Beta version 2.2 ? :?: :?: :?:

fab
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:47 am


Dirk Offringa
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Dirk Offringa » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:59 am

It's not a bug. It's a Windows oddity.

Dirk
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.

Sonoacustico
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Sonoacustico » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Hello everyone,
it's great to know that I'm not alone in this quest :) and I know it might be a windows issue. My biggest concern is not the mess with the names of the ports, but Forte (or windows) switching them and us getting them on different order. I guess each port should have some sort of id within the code, and the settings on each scene for each midi input port would be associated with that "port id", the thing that's happening is that after reboot, forte (or windows) might (or might not) assign a different id to each port, changing the order. However, the workaround mentioned looks like a very reasonable short-term solution. (Thanks!)
A sort of "Move up" and "move down" on the list of midi input ports would be a simple (from the user's point of view) solution. Such thing would need to be global (affecting all VSTi's in all scenes).
Cheers

Claudio

MikeG
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby MikeG » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:43 am

As of Forte 2.0, everything is keyed off of port ID, not name.

However, there is NO unique port ID that comes from the driver. The port IDs are simply the enumeration order: The first port gets 1, the second gets 2, etc.

If windows enumerates your ports in a different order from boot to boot, this could cause a switch. Also, since many USB devices seem to use the generic "USB Audio Device" or "USB MIDI In" there's no way to tell the difference between them.

Mike
----------------
Mike (brainspawn)
www.brainspawn.com/support

PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.

maan

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby maan » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:38 am

Workaround - Claudio, I discovered a way to trick the Windows, and the Forte start with the correct ports. is this you first need to open the Forte just creating a scene, and putting only one vst any, give a name then save it. After that every time you open the Forte with the rack at work, first open the rack just one scene, then open the rack to work with various scenes. I'm doing it and Forte are opening the correct ports, I have helped, see you soon. :lol:

fab
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 am

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Sun May 09, 2010 4:03 pm


fab
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 am

Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby fab » Mon May 10, 2010 2:08 am

btw, here is another nice and simple midi matrix/patchbay with basic filtering

http://www.hermannseib.com/miditrix.htm

in german, but largely self-explaining...

yamus
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby yamus » Mon May 10, 2010 10:26 pm

Fab (and others), if you scroll to the bottom of the page of the link you posted, there is a British flag you click on for English.

Franck
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Franck » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:19 am

Now most of USB interfaces have a specific name and not simple "USB Audio Device". Isn't there a way for forte to take the name of device into account and not only the port ID? Though there might still be a problem with two identical devices :s

Franck
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby Franck » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:33 am

Just noticed this should be fixed in forte 3. Can't wait for it :]

MikeG
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Re: Midi input ports exchange?

Postby MikeG » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:16 am

This issue should be fixed in 2.2.16, which will be released shortly.
----------------
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PLEASE NOTE that the forum is not monitored as frequently as the support site above. This forum is intended primarily as a way for users to ask other users questions about the use of Forte.


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